Episode 273: Shira Moskovitz

Episode 273: Shira Moskovitz

Empowering Learners Through Dual Roles

[00:00:00] Fonz: Hello everybody and welcome to another great episode of My Ed Tech Life. Thank you so much for joining us on this wonderful day and wherever it is that you're joining us around the world, thank you as always for making us part of your day and part of your listening pleasure. And as always, thank you so much for your continued support of this podcast.

As you know, we do what we do for you so we can bring you the best. Some amazing conversations here into our education space that can help build us up and just help us grow professionally, personally, and also to learn from different perspectives. And so I'm excited for today's chat, but before we dive in and introducing you to my amazing and wonderful guests, I would love to take this time to thank our show sponsors.

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Well, I am excited to welcome this past guest. Uh, Shira Moskowitz has been here on our show before. When actually we were talking about Lucid for education, but now she comes back as a solo guest and I am really excited about today's topic, but before we dive in, Shira, how are you doing this evening?

[00:01:54] Shira: Great. Thanks.

[00:01:56] Fonz: I appreciate it. Thank you so much. How was your day today at work?

[00:02:00] Shira: Busy, uh, as always, but also as to be expected, I think.

[00:02:05] Fonz: Perfect. Well, same here. I mean, as you're new, we're starting off the week and at least we were, we were coming back from break. I know you guys just came off a break and getting ready for another break in about a month or so, like you were mentioning in the pre chat, but Shira, for all our audience members who are catching the show live right now and are not familiar with your work yet.

Can you please give us a little brief introduction and what your context is in the education space?

[00:02:33] Shira: Sure. So I am a New York City public school educator. I teach special education and technology. Um, I'll take it like a step back. I did not start my career in education. I started as a graphic designer, um, did like a little web design.

Really enjoyed it worked and I felt like I wasn't vibing. It wasn't exactly lining up with my values. I was doing a lot of photo retouching for sports companies. They wanted to make the fans and the pictures look more beautiful or like just things that just didn't really align with my values. Um, had a good time.

And while I was working, I went back to grad school for education and. When I actually interviewed for my current position, I interviewed for two roles at the same time, the technology position and the special ed position. And I just said to my hiring, my current, my boss said, you call me where you think is best.

Like, I don't know this vibe. I don't know the school. Um, and I taught in special ed for five years in the school, which I still do now, but I kept thinking back to that technology position that she had mentioned. And I realized that there are lots of wonderful special education teachers. There are very few that can combine this special patient and technology side of things.

Um. And there's a big need for that. So I ended up making a role for myself that could save the best of both worlds. I combined both of them. I teach tech sometimes during the day. I teach special education sometimes during the day. And I also give tech support. So I provide support and training for teachers.

Other parts of the day, a lot going on.

[00:04:20] Fonz: Yes, definitely a lot going on. And you know what, Shira, also, uh, that's very interesting as well, uh, you know, coming in from a non traditional education background, same as myself. And so it's interesting to hear, you know, your background. In graphic design. So you're already dabbling in some tech there.

And then of course, making the decision to kind of change careers. And still, I mean, to this day, I'm sure a lot of that graphic design and just really the, just the technology know how has definitely, you know, transferred over into your current role, I would imagine, because I mean, we use a lot of technology in the classrooms and so on.

And I think that's very important. So that's really interesting story. Thank you so much for sharing that. Uh, because again, it's. It's not often that I, you know, that I do have a lot of guests that come in with, uh, you know, education being kind of that second career like myself. And it's been wonderful.

And I know that I have seen your work, obviously when you were on the previous show, when we had, you know, wonderful educators, you seen Lucid for Education. Some of the things that you were doing and it would through lucid, you know, for your classroom and how the, the way that you talked about that classroom and engagement and all of those things really, you know, were phenomenal and amazing.

And I know we'll get into that in just a bit, but just being very interesting to, for a lot of our listeners, listening to the fact that you've got two roles. So. You've got the special ed teacher, uh, educator side, but then you are also doing technology and training, uh, teachers. So please tell us a little bit about that in, in your kind of maybe, I don't know, a day in the life of, you know, of how your day goes and how you balance the, the teacher side and then how you balance the, you know, digital coach side or tech coach side.

So I would love to hear a little bit more about that.

[00:06:09] Shira: Sure. So. I'll just give today as an example. I came in first thing in the morning and I had a special ed class. So what I do now is I'm not in the classroom. Um, obviously that wouldn't really work out, but, um, I, so I have special ed pull out. So when students are struggling with a certain content area.

So first period, I had a special ed class that I taught fifth grade reading. Next period was my one prep for the day for all of my roles. So I try to get as much as I can done during that time. And then move into back to back teaching technology classes. So I taught, uh, Self contained special education class.

So that's a higher needs class. Um, and actually what I was teaching them was Adobe Express using Adobe Express to. Express themselves, no pun intended, but using Adobe express to express their math thinking, um, in a more visual way, moved on to my next class. I'm teaching Google slides to a second grade classroom.

I have my lunch. I then went in back to teaching special ed math and reading, and then the student's school day ends. And in my school on Mondays, the teachers have PD. So I participated in some PD where I was learning, but then there was also a time where I was teaching the special education teachers about a, an app called class stars that we're.

Using in our school to manage behavior. So I was introducing to them before I introduced it to the paraprofessionals the following week. And then that was my day. That was my jam pack day.

[00:07:51] Fonz: Wow. That is amazing. So just wearing those multiple hats and just keeping track of, you know, really like everything that you're doing throughout the day.

And then at the end of the day, after working with students, working with teachers also, and I know that that must be very exhausting, but at the same time, I think the fact that you get to be in the classroom and see how students are working and getting to see their needs is something that is a wonderful thing to have a note that when you do go work with teachers, you have that insight and you can kind of just say, Hey, well, you know, this is what I'm seeing, at least with my students.

And they could be something that could be, you know, also for all students as well, that could be beneficial. So I love that aspect where. Myself, I'm a, I'm a little bit more removed from the classroom. So really my job is more to like, Hey, here's the platform. Let's go ahead and roll it out and see, let me show you the, the great tools that are available, like reports and things of that sort, and how we can go ahead and implement that within their class settings.

So very similar in a, in a way, but I'm just a little bit more far removed from the classroom and I work with teachers a little bit more, but that is wonderful and interesting. So that's it. Tell me a little bit more, at least from your experience and what you're seeing, not only maybe within your school district, but also maybe in general, like from other peers that may be in the, in that, in just in that setting in your city, in your role, what are some of the things that we are.

Seeing that we need to help our teachers with a little bit more as far as professional development and even more so now in this age, where we know what we're all talking about AI, and we're talking about several platforms that are out there. So I just want to hear a little bit about your perspective, what you see, and maybe if you have some colleagues or peers that have shared what they're seeing.

[00:09:43] Shira: So I definitely think AI comes up a lot. Um, obviously the buzzword now. But I think. Taking a step back. A lot of people's concerns about AI are more related to not understanding what it is. Right? So when we talk about technology PD in general, providing teachers access to understand what platforms are without assumptions.

I find that a lot of times teachers are approached with 2 either 2 camps. 1, it's that teachers know nothing. Which may be the case about certain platforms, you know, without the resources to learn about it. They may not know anything about it. So you need to start from scratch. But the other side is that these teachers are millennials.

They understand everything. I don't need to explain. I can start from the midway point. And even if someone knows lots about technology and they grew up in the era where that is accessible to them, that doesn't mean that they understand educational technology or best practices for using it. Especially when we talk about new teachers.

They're learning so much just about being in the classroom that then throwing a platform at them and saying, you, you could figure this out is not realistic, but it's happening so often. So, I think recognizing that, I don't want to say that bias, that's not the right word, but recognizing that that's where a lot of teachers are being taught at, and then taking a step back and saying, I'm going to give everyone that over.

That overview and then also dive in because regardless of age, there are some teachers that are more comfortable that some teachers aren't so when that comes, I find that with everything that I'm doing and specifically in my own school, like you said, the benefit of my job is that not only do I get to teach the teachers, but I teach the students.

So, almost any platform that I'm teaching teachers, the students already know about it. They've already learned it. So. When I pass that off to the teachers, it's because your students are competent in this. Here are other ways you can use this in your classroom, but you don't need to teach them the technology because I've already done that.

So my fifth graders used Adobe express to make their yearbook. Now they can go off and do other things. They can design posters in class to represent what they're learning and other content because they know how to do it. All the teachers have to do is they go onto Adobe express and they can, they know what to do.

Obviously there's always more to learn and more to do, but they'll explore that. And the kids we can trust the kids to do that on their own. Um, but I think that taking those 2, those 2 lenses and then that applies to everything that applies to I applies everything else. I think the other thing that I noticed a lot is security teachers do not necessarily have enough background knowledge about why we do or don't use certain websites.

Based on security and privacy. And I'm not even just going to say teachers. I've worked with principals in my district that when I explained to them why we're taking certain privacy measures. It's like, well, I, I don't want to do that. I don't agree with that. I'm like, but your students are minors and their, you know, their information deserves to be respected and secure.

And that's a really hard thing for people to understand. So I think that that's something that is not talked about nearly enough and that if teachers really have the understanding of what could happen this, why this isn't secure. AI or not, I mean, like, it comes up a lot with AI, but every website that they may be more engaged in the learning process to find out what is secure.

So what can I use? What can I do to make this more secure? And it's just not talked about. It's assumed that it's above the teacher's level and they won't understand what we're talking about. So then. They're going to make wrong choices because you're not teaching it to them.

[00:13:22] Fonz: And, you know, I, uh, a couple of things that I want to highlight there.

And a lot of things that you said here, you're absolutely right. You know, as far as even myself, when we see some new teachers that are coming in, it's very different. And you're absolutely right. And the fact that even just, you know, standard practice should not be like, Hey, welcome to your school district, you know, new teachers, and here are the platforms.

And. Okay, you're, you should be good. Like there, there's this idea of like, Oh, they're, you know, they're, they're digital natives, you know, and, and we say the same thing with students as well, like, Oh no, they grew up, you know, using cell phones and they grew up using iPads, they should be fine. But no, the reality is it's that they're not fine.

You know, you still need to go ahead and help them out. And, you know, uh, Kind of give them instructions as to how to use it and use it properly. And even for new teachers as well, it's like, I just, one of the things that I learned is never to assume that they know how to navigate everything quickly, because I mean, even they may come in from different school districts.

They're not used to using an LMS that we may be using or a platform. So definitely a lot of variables there. But one of the things that you mentioned too, is. We know that there will be some teachers that will be those easy and early adopters and a lot of things that will take off and I quick shout out to Renee Dawson because I always use this continually.

She was on the show and she mentions, you know, she's got teachers that are speedboats, teachers that are tugboats and teachers that are anchors. She says her speedboats just. You know, you just show them the app, the little that you know, and they just take off and they roll with it and they just kind of leave everybody behind.

But then you also have the tugboats that'll take it, they'll learn it. And they'll kind of help those other teachers, you know, which she calls the anchors that might be a little bit more hesitant as far as using the technology and kind of just, you know, encourage them along and to be able to use that so everybody's using the technology.

One of the things that I love. That you mentioned about your role. And honestly, I wish I could probably do a little bit more of that, but just because there's only one of me for a whole entire school district. But I love the fact that this platforms that you are already using with the students are the ones that you're training teachers on.

So it's wonderful that the students are already used to those platforms or getting very familiar. So even if a teacher goes in there. Not knowing everything, which is completely okay. And I always say, it's okay to not know everything, but the fact that she could learn from her students, uh, or his students and so on and so forth.

I think that's very powerful too, as well, because now, like you said, you kind of pass that baton along to the teachers and they can easily say, all right, guys, we're going to go ahead and open up, you know, like you mentioned Adobe, and this is what I need you to create. The students can be very confident in using that.

So I really love your approach and I really applaud your school in school district for having a role such as this. And the fact that, like, I mentioned many times, I would say it's that street cred that I was saying, like. Hey, she's still in the classroom. She knows what she's talking about. Whereas opposed with me that I've been far removed from the classroom because I'm focused more on the teachers.

It's almost sometimes they're like, well, you're not in the classroom. And this is like, I know, I understand, but I was there before and I know it's not the same. And so I think that what you're doing is something that's great and wonderful. And so thank you for sharing that. And also that perspective on, you know, teachers and teacher security.

I think that. Many times we don't have those conversations. And then we know that the school year needs to go by quick curriculum. Goals need to be there. You have to be at a certain point on your curriculum by a certain time. And we miss out on a lot of those conversations. And one thing that you highlighted, whether it's AI or not AI, many platforms.

We need to obviously make sure that we're using something that is not going to be harmful to our students or even our teachers as far as data, data privacy. So those are some very important conversations. So, as far as, you know, your, your line of work and what it is that you're doing, the experiences that you've shared with us, what would be some of the things that you feel that we could do a little bit better?

I know you mentioned some right now as far as your observations, but as far as maybe making like, you know, systemic changes within maybe just even a school or mindset shifts, what would be the best approach there that you see can be beneficial to teachers as they work with students and involve the technology as well?

[00:18:06] Shira: I think that, um, the way that I talk about teaching technology to my students and the teachers, to be honest, is that I'm not teaching them to play games. Like, my students already know how to pick up a video game and engage. We're talking about that higher order thinking skills, whether that's a teacher who's trying to use.

An assessment tool. They can probably type in a question and get it an answer from a student. But is it going to be the most effective? Is it going to be using every feature and every option and highlighting every student's strength in the same way that a student, if I present a platform to them, they can probably figure out something, but they're going to figure out exactly what I want them to.

So everything that I do with students and with teachers is tied into content that they're learning in the class. I teach them technology is a standalone subject and therefore I have. Buying for my teachers, and I think that that's not really done enough, even within my district. I don't know. I'm very lucky to have a supervisor and a principal that gives me the leeway to make those choices.

Um, there's also not yet any. Standards or requirements for New York City elementary schools and technology. So it's kind of a little more open ended right now. That may not always be the case, but everything that I do is tied into other content. So when I'm teaching programming with scratch, they're programming either the cause and effect in science or sequence of events in history.

There's always something tied in. So then the teachers also have buy in to learn it because it's not just this program that they're working on in technology class. It has nothing to do with what I'm doing. They often work on that end of unit project in my class. For their, for their teacher's class, so the teacher kind of wants to know what's going on too.

So there's more buy in. It also feels less forced because I'm not saying here's this extra thing that you have to learn. It's that here's this thing that your kids are working on that you will make your life easier that you won't have to create an essay for because the kids are going to produce an animation about, you know, the cause and effect of the American revolution.

So, um, Taking this away from here's an extra thing. You just have to add on. It often means also, here's an extra thing. You have to find time in your day to teach. And if we remove that. Owners from the teachers, it's that I'm going to support you, but I'm also taking away work for me, right? You don't have to do this test.

You don't have to do this essay, whatever me that every end of unit. Assignment is something more creative. I'm passionate about it also because it gives more students an opportunity to shine. So teachers are bought in, students have buy in. I don't see any negatives to it. I wish that there were more schools.

I did that.

[00:20:51] Fonz: Yeah. And you know, a couple of things that I, I want, well, that I wanna highlight that you mentioned is, you know, the ability, what you said, for a student to be able to share their learning in a different modality, you know, it doesn't always have to be the same type of assessment, whether it's multiple choice, whether it's a Google form, whether it's, you know, maybe even something on paper or anything of that sort.

But the fact that you are. Kind of raising them up in the use of technology and using it correctly. And like you said, it ties to the curriculum that the teacher is doing. And like you said, it, it, to me, it's something that is of a relief that you are actually taking something off of a teacher's plate, because.

Now they can say, Hey, you know what, I would love for you or for the student to present the, that end of unit, uh, or end of art learning artifact, whether it's, you know, a project, whether they, you can say, Hey, maybe code something for me in, uh, scratch coding or using Adobe express, create a graphic or create the animation, you know, voice animation, uh, things of that sort where they're still showing content mastery.

But just doing it in a fun way where they are vested in it. And as a teacher, they still have a learning artifact that will meet the criteria of saying, Hey, you know, the student did understand the content. And I have that digital artifact here that later on, you can add it to a portfolio or show growth, or if you have some meetings where there may be some parents involved or anything of that sort interventions, you have evidence of learning.

Evidence of growth. And I think that's something that's very powerful because what you're just saying is something that I was doing, you know, 10 years ago when I was still in the classroom, um, you know, and I found it so beneficial to myself where I wasn't really grading any papers at all. My students were all actively participants or active participants in their learning because I gave them multiple ways of showing their learning and they were buying I mean, they knew what we were doing.

Some of them started podcasting. Some of them did a screencasts where they just dubbed over their presentations. Some of them created some amazing things on scratch coding that they, you know, they even for, for a state test prep created some amazing projects where they would stand in front of the Chromebook.

And, um, they would go ahead and do a little trigger where there would be like a little, uh, Sprite there. They kind of point there. And then all of a sudden the sprite would mention some vocabulary words or things of that sort. And so I think that that's something that's very powerful, but the fact that you're helping and then the teachers can also feel some relief where again.

Those different levels of teachers are like, okay, I'm gonna be okay because the students feel comfortable and they feel now the teachers feel confident that they can go ahead and assign something in a different modality. So I definitely want to highlight that. And, um, you know, you're absolutely right.

And where I wish that there would be more schools. That would be able to do a little bit more of that, but obviously there needs to be a lot more training and a lot more support, but it just seems like for you in the campus that you're working on working in. They are definitely lucky to have somebody as great as you are to be able to.

Work with students and also bring those same tools to the teachers as well. So that kudos to you for what you're doing and wearing those multiple hats there for sure. So I wanted to talk a little bit more, kind of like what you're saying, as far as that, that project based approach, what would you say would be something that you feel, uh, you know, at least for you has been possibly an obstacle.

That, and maybe if there's a way that maybe you've overcome that obstacle that you don't mind sharing with us as far as working with teachers and helping them kind of feel comfortable and maybe seeing things that saying like, okay, I don't necessarily have to give an essay for that. You know, have you been, have you had to kind of, I don't want to say battle it out because I don't want to use that type of language.

So scratch that, but just. I guess you would say just maybe find some resistance, I guess, in kind of changing things. So what has been your experience and how have you overcome a little bit of that?

[00:25:19] Shira: I think there's always going to be resistance, no matter what you do. And this is not just an education, right?

In any field where something has been going the same way for a really long time, Bradley is saying that we need something entirely different. That's going to be hard for people. So some people really didn't like that system to begin with. Are going to be your early adopters and the people who are more resistant are the people who are a not as comfortable with the technology be.

Maybe I've been teaching this same unit in this same way for a really long time. And me suggesting any changes, like saying, throw this unit out all together. So I think showing people that I'm not asking them to change their teaching at all. And I'm also not taking away those skills that the previous assessment might have required.

Right. Although multiple choice questions come up never in real life. Um, I still see the value of preparing students for the eventual multiple choice questions they might encounter later on in school. And as an entry teacher, we're more talking like in middle school, maybe they're going to have state tests or they have in the lower grades that in elementary, I'll take that back.

I teach K through five in New York state. They only have state standardized tests starting in third grade. So, a 2nd grade teacher might not feel the same responsibility that a 3rd grade teacher does to teach those types of skills, but I'm not taking away any of those skills. There's still space for them.

It just may not be in every unit. And I often highlight those students that have learning or thinking differences, whether that's an official diagnosis, or they're just challenged, or right now, at least in our state, we have a lot of migrant students. So, students are coming with not the same language skills, probably not the same amount of schooling.

And if they did go to school consistently, it didn't look the same. So, we're dealing with an environment where we have lots of different needs coming into play and this is kind of an equalizer where every student has equal access. To this information to this knowledge, and for the teachers who are really, really resistant.

This is where their grades come into play. Sorry,

I find that the teachers who. Are more nervous that this is going to somehow impact them or impact their trajectory, their students, their grades, their ratings. If you, if you hadn't a student who has never taken a test before, and maybe can't even read the language of the test, a standard on paper test, the likelihood of them succeeding is very small.

But if you hand them an assessment that allows them to access it without necessarily the language barrier or less of a language barrier without the assumption that they've sat for a 45 minute test before, and you allow them to work through it as a task rather than this. very much. Stereotypical assessment, you'll see a lot more passing grades.

So if people are worried about ratings and those types of things, which does come up, and I'm not going to take that away their teacher, you know, this is part of your profession and you want them to reflect you. Well, I think this is a tool to access that knowledge for more students. So I get by and sometimes when people are worried about.

The results and saying that the results will actually be better.

[00:28:45] Fonz: Absolutely. So now that you mentioned, you know, K through five, and you mentioned some of the, the student population that is coming in, you know, you've got emerging bilinguals, you've got students that are coming in just from all over. You know, different countries and so on.

And then aside from that, you know, you're working with your students as well. So one thing that I want to ask you is talk a little bit about accessibility, you know, and accessibility tools, because I know that that can't be. Easy at all, whatsoever, like for us here being in a very demographic, different demographic than what you're seeing really like the influx that we get here, because we, I live in the most Southern tip of Texas.

So really a lot of the students that we do get are emergent bilinguals, but they're Spanish speaking students first. So it's not, I'm not saying that it's completely a hundred percent easy because there are some teachers that. You know, may not have those, that language skill also. So we still need to have some accessibility tools, but for a lot of us, it just makes it very smooth and easy because as long as you speak Spanish, we're going to be good.

But for, you know, where you're living in New York, I would imagine that it's not just Spanish speaking and you've got different dialects and, you know, from all different countries. As far as accessibility and making sure that, you know, those students that are coming in have great access to, you know, the same education and the same resources that everybody else has, what is it that you're seeing?

And, and, you know, maybe what are some of the tools that you may be using? Because I think this is a very important topic that we, you know, maybe oftentimes is not really shared, but I would love to. Here, your perspective, because you're in the classroom and you see this firsthand. And also you get to see the teacher, I guess, side of it and the, the reactions to it and the help that they need.

Can I, you know, pick your brain as far as your perspective and your experience on this?

[00:30:47] Shira: So I think that starting point that I only use resources or tools in my classroom that are going to be accessible. So, yeah, sometimes that means I have to translate into six or seven different languages, but, um, give another shout out to Adobe Express here.

I promise I didn't sponsor this, but they have an awesome translate feature that with one button, you can pick a bunch of different languages, translate captions on videos and worksheets and so many different things presentation. So I'm never presenting in a situation where students aren't. Don't have the language access available.

The 1 thing I'll say is that that's the assumption that every student can read is not the case. Um, even in their own language. So, a lot of times I will walk around with. Um, a tablet or my phone, even use translate to just make sure that we're baseline that they understand what is going on. And yes, that sometimes takes longer, especially if I'm doing multiple languages, but.

That's that's just our baseline. That's the reality. Um, and to be honest, that was always the case. My school was, oh, it's in a immigrant neighborhood. So this has been the entire time that I'm teaching in the school. That's that's that's how we teach. Um, but the other thing that I like to do is I like to point out and teach the accessibility features.

Not just for language, but for all types of learners when I'm teaching. So if I'm teaching something with Google Docs. I include in my lessons and accessibility features like voice typing or speech to text for everyone because it helps everyone write this universal design for learning that it doesn't hurt anyone.

It helps everyone. And some people need it. So, it's part of what we do, like, I'm thinking of my upcoming units. We're talking about spreadsheets. So I'm going to point out those accessibility features in Google sheets. From the get go so that for the kids that can't do the assignment without it, they have it.

And for the kids that want it, the 1 issue that I'll find is that when I teach speech to text, not everyone needs it. And it does cause a problem when 32 kids use it at the same time, because the microphone will be picking up from more than 1 kid. Um, so all I say is that you find the best space that works for you, and you find the tools that work for you.

So if a kid, I'm not going to police accessibility features, right? If a kid wants to use it, that's great. Find the best space for that. That may mean that working at your seat. You know, 2 inches away from someone else is not the best place to work. That's okay. Go find somewhere else. Go sit in the corner.

Go sit next to a bookshelf. I don't care. Um, and to be honest, that's already a rule in my class and technology classes that you sit wherever you want wherever I say your best space for learning. So it's not any different. It's just that you may find that you're sitting next to someone and you both want to use this tool and it's not working.

Okay, go find a different place to work. Um, but other than that, that's the only accessibility feature that, um, I don't want to limit access, but has caused, you know, some logistical issues. Otherwise, every accessibility feature, everything that I, every tool that I provide, it's embedded into the lesson for everyone specifically so that there's no singling out, but also because a lot of times people don't even realize that they might benefit from a tool.

It's like speech to text is a specific example that if you have trouble with writing that great, it's there for you. But when I talk about things like, I actually, I'll throw in the AI buzzword, when I talk about executive functioning. So some people have a diagnosis of ADHD and they know that they struggle with executive functioning.

We talk about breaking down a task and you can use AI to break down a task for you, but not everyone with an ADHD diagnosis. Not everyone. I'll tell you this. Some people who don't have an ADHD diagnosis also struggle with executive functioning and they may not even realize it until they use the tool to help them.

And now, you know, we've radically changed their outlook. And if we gatekeep this by just saying, Oh, only if you have a diagnosis, can you have access to this information that just seems so silly. So when I teach things like that, I teach it to everyone. And that is again, a privilege of my job that I have that opportunity to teach all the students When my students with a diagnosis come to my class.

I can then reinforce it with the kids that may need it more, but I don't know that I find accessibility to be a thing that should be limited by our demographic.

[00:35:30] Fonz: And that's, well said, I mean, you hit on a lot of things that I definitely want to unpack a little bit, just because of my experience and my experience with, um, one of my great friends, a great colleague, a math content specialist.

And, you know, we always talked about MTSS, you know, multi tiered systems of support, UDL, and you hit on so many things. Things here that I remember I had a past guest to, we were talking about accessibility tools, and then I was doing a, just some research and looking on LinkedIn. And then all of a sudden, I see an article stating, you know, how.

You know, even students at a university level, whether they need a tool or not, they're still using something like speech to text, or they're going from text to speech, just, you know, audio supports and things of that sort, where oftentimes. I guess because of state testing and certain restrictions, I think there's a mindset where a lot of teachers are like, oh, no, no, no, no, that that student does not require this specific support, but we're only going to turn it on for those specific students where I'm very much like you, where I believe it's like, hey, if you turn it on for everybody.

It's going to benefit everybody. And the goal is like, I've had Katie Novak here on the show and she's like, you know, the UDL queen, but she's always said, you know, it's having these tools there. It's not to necessarily make the students completely dependent on this, because there may be students that, you know, may may need it 1 day, or maybe they prefer something else another day.

But maybe. The goal is to kind of wean them off of some of those tools. And then really just at the end, they're going to be using the tools that they really need. And then the students that really don't need those supports, they've got, um, you know, different ways of being able to learn different tools at their hands and so on.

And I absolutely love that. Just being able to open up. For everybody to give every student an equal opportunity to learn, whether it's through for language or just listening supports, things of that sort, or even just tools that can help, you know, with overlays, colored overlays, little, you know, just that for the reading supports and things of that sort.

I feel that. You know, many times we hear there's a mentality again, no, we, we're only going to use it for these particular students. And you're singling a student out. And then, then obviously, sometimes there's like a stigma of like, ha, you have to use that. And I don't, and it causes so many issues and I'm not a big fan of that, you know, and then also here, we definitely need to educate, uh, many teachers here where, you know, If you are not using a certain tool or a certain manipulative in your tier one support, then your tier two support, when that student gets a pullout, they're not going to be able to use that tool according to the state tests.

So teachers also have to. You know, get that proper training on, you know, using math manipulatives because you have to implement them in your tier one in your curriculum and then tier two can do that additional support and then they can be used on a state test. So there's a lot of different things that here in Texas and, and I'm sure state testing in different states, they all have their little nuances that you really have to meet and certain criteria that you have to meet.

And, but I love that you said that. Even though a student may not need the support, why not allow them to use it? And that's what I'm, I've always been a fan of. Like my classroom was very much like yours that you describe where, Hey, you can go sit wherever you want. If you need to record, you know, if you need to go into the hall, go ahead and record, or you need to go to the corner.

Uh, I remember one year I got some of these boxes that I have here, uh, for my, uh, Uh, and then those little boxes, I just kind of fold. And then I bought a really big roll of like mattress, uh, padding that looks like the eggshell mattress. And then I just kind of lined them with that. And then they get in there with their little iPads or Chromebooks.

And then it was kind of like a little mini sound booth. So they can go ahead and record a little bit more quietly and so on. So sometimes it's just getting creative with those things and, and being able to put it in the student's hands. So I love what you said there. Um, you know, so I'm thankful that you do share a lot of those things and big shout out, I know Adobe Express is not, I promise you, they're not endorsing this, but big shout out to them because of those wonderful tools where you can go ahead and instantly be able to translate.

You know, captions too, as well. That's one thing that I love translating. And then of course, like you mentioned the text too, as well. And it's just wonderful how you can choose. You've got one, one graphic on there and you just click on all your languages and boom, in a matter of seconds, you've got, you know, different languages, all they're lined up for you and a great piece to communicate with parents too, as well.

One thing that you mentioned too, also the assumption of. You know, thinking that students can read, you know, as well coming in from a different country. 1 of the big shocks that I want to share is during cobit. Obviously, everything, um, you know, we were locked in and everything was shut down. Well, we had.

Parents that were needing support and we were sending things home. And then that's when I realized there was a parent that contacted us and said like, Hey, well, I mean, I'm having trouble here because I can't read. We never thought about that either, where there might be some parents that may not be able to read.

So how are we as a learning community and as this campus or a school or a district, how Reaching out to them and helping, you know, provide supports for our parents as well. So there can be that communication from home to school and school to home. So definitely a lot to unpack there for sure. So, uh, okay, so we'll kind of here, I guess we'll do a little break right now.

And then, so is there anything else that you want to just like dive into?

[00:41:30] Shira: Um, I just wanted to add in like one tiny bullet point about accessibility features is that there's also this misnomer that if I give them this accessibility feature, they won't ever learn the skill. And obviously my class experience is not a, you know, a sample size enough for research, but just for my classroom, I have never met a student.

Who does not want to read or does not want to write or does not want to be able to do the skill that whatever the tool is supporting them with, they don't, they want to be able to do it. So giving them that support, which I sometimes get from teachers pushback, and sometimes I get from parent pushback given that support is only giving them a step into the game, right?

So, if they can't read and making reading harder for them, they're just not going to be interested in reading or writing or whatever. It may be that engaging in larger texts, whatever it is, giving them any support is not taking away that desire. It is only allowing them to engage in it so that they could one day.

Do this either without the tool or with the tool. You know, sometimes, sometimes a student, their, their capacity will always be, they will always need that support and that's okay. But for the people that can learn and one day get beyond that, give them the tools only making sure that they're still interested and still invested moving forward.

So it's interesting because I sometimes have teachers saying that, like, I don't want, I don't want to cripple them. But, and I say it's the exact opposite, taking that tool or not allowing them to use that tool is what is crippling them. If you want a kid who wants to read. Give them books and give the books, however, they can read them, however, they can access them.

So that one day when the opportunity arises, they will pick up that book and read on their own. If you make them not interested now, they won't be interested later.

[00:43:19] Fonz: I love that. That was so powerful, Shira, because again, going back to one of the battles that we. Have in our district is the use of math manipulatives.

And I think it's that mindset too, where it's like, well, you're, you're, you're giving them the way that they're getting the answers. It's like, well, isn't that what we want them to do? It's like, yeah, but now they're dependent on these manipulatives and I need them to know the standard algorithm and this.

I was like, but wait a minute, you know, let's, let's unpack the standard. The standard says. Using math manipulatives and algorithms. It doesn't say algorithm, it says algorithms. So then the teachers are kind of like, Oh, I was like, yeah, like this is the standard we need to unpack that. And it's not just the traditional standard, you know, you have those concrete objects.

And so, but that, that stigma has always been there. It's like, Oh, they've got to use manipulatives. So, you know, Like, we're crippling them where we're or some teachers, well, you're giving them an advantage. I was like, well, that's what the tool is for to help the students succeed. And there's countless times where we honestly, like you mentioned, you know, too bad we couldn't do a study.

There isn't enough of big sample size, but when we do give the students the math manipulatives, they are so successful. In figuring out, you know, division, multiplication, addition and subtraction in a far easier way, whether they need the tool or not, but you're developing that skill and ultimately the students that can continue to excel and they pick up on it, you know, sometimes they'll wean themselves off and be like, oh, okay, I got this because now I can picture it mentally, or I know, you know, drawing sticks and, you know, using my fingers.

Those are manipulatives. But then, like you mentioned, teachers will say, no, I'm going to take that away from you. You need to have these memorized and you need to make sure that, you know, all your math facts. I was like, Yikes, you know, that's kind of the way that I grew up. Like you have to memorize your math facts and recite them.

But then what we found out is when I see students that write down, um, one of their strategies is I need you to write down your multiplication chart before you start your math test. If one student gets one math fact wrong, the whole chart is off. So we always tell teachers, it's like, it's better if they just, you know, You know, work on multiplication tables, and they can work with that instead of having the chart, because they'll fill in the chart.

And then sometimes we find a lot of errors in the charts, which, you know, the students, it, it doesn't do them any good. And then there's teachers that will say, no, you need to memorize it. You can't use your fingers. I was like, but these are manipulatives or concrete objects. So, again, going to that. I think it's just that mentality and I think there definitely needs to be more professional development and just understanding that that, you know, giving access and being able to have access to these tools to help a student be successful.

I mean, that's the whole point. We want them to pass. We want them to feel. Encourage. And like you mentioned, it's not that they're not going to want to solve the tasks anymore because they have to use the tool they actually want to solve. I want to continue to learn. So I think that was so well said, and that's going to be an awesome sound bite.

And I can't wait to cut that. Cause that's a wonderful.

[00:46:43] Shira: I think also we have to think about their real life, you know, what is their life going to look like? Are they going to walk around and start writing out all the multiplication or anything, you know, we have to prepare them for life. And. And maybe 20 years ago was no one could imagine saying this, but yes, they will walk around with a little tool in their pocket that will do speech to text for them.

So at the end of the day, if that is how, yeah, if that is how you get them to read and engage a text, that is okay, because they will have that resource with them forever. We don't go anywhere without phones. So I don't think that it's so terrible to say that if a student's capacity is only to ever read with the support of technology.

Great. Now teach them the technology and they will go and read everywhere. If you take that away, you say, please don't read anywhere. Like, I

[00:47:30] Fonz: love that. Well, Shira, this has been an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for being here and just sharing your passion and obviously sharing a very unique role.

I'll be honest with you. I don't think I've met anybody else. That is in a role like yours. You're the first person that I meet that is both, uh, you know, teacher and also tech coach in that sense of this at the same time and wearing those multiple hats. So, I mean, kudos for what you do and it's just amazing.

And definitely your school is very lucky to have you and, you know, and I'm sure that your teachers appreciate all the work that you do and the students also just sharing their knowledge. different ways of expressing their learning and engaging them in the content where they are encouraged and they are excited to continue to learn.

So that's wonderful. So I really appreciate you being here and sharing that. But before we go, you know, that we always love to end the show with these last three questions. And I know that you're already familiar with the format. I think from the last time that you were on, I did change the last question.

So I don't know if that one might catch you by surprise, but I think you've listened. To a couple of shows where you are kind of familiar with the last three questions. So the first question for you, Shira is, as we know, every superhero has a pain point or a weakness. And we know for Superman kryptonite was his greatest weakness or that one pain point that he had.

So I want to ask you, Shira, in the current state of education, what would you say is your current edu kryptonite?

[00:49:07] Shira: I think we kind of touched on it, but my biggest pain point is teacher training, not providing enough awareness about educational technology. Just the assumption that you're a millennial, you can get out.

And I know professors in many colleges and they can just, You know, either demonstrate with their own teaching, using educational technology, or have a course on it, but it's, it's not being supported enough to the point that I would, you know, I think that should be that we should, we should have every suit every teacher coming in every pre service teacher feeling comfortable, not necessarily everything, but have a course on it.

Some tools in their back pocket to come into teaching, using, I don't know that we're getting at just yet. I

[00:49:51] Fonz: love it. Great, great point. Thank you so much for sharing that. All right. Question number two, if you could have a billboard with anything on it, what would it be and why?

[00:50:04] Shira: Um, I think that from the last time I was here, is it okay if I use the same one because I'm still a firm believer.

It's something I've always said to my students, but I feel like now, just given the state of this world. I always ask my students to respect and protect students who look different than them, and you just need to teach them to embrace people, people who do things differently. And if they can just approach with questioning and with positivity, rather than negativity about someone's difference, whether that's how they look, how they speak, how they act, how they practice anything.

The world will just be a better place, so I hope for that for my students and for anyone else. On this virtual billboard. Go

[00:50:42] Fonz: for it. I love it. Love it. Thank you so much. And the last question is, do you have a favorite activity or hobby that you wish you could turn into a full time profession?

[00:51:00] Shira: I'll say that. I think the, I used to say like, I wish I could teach teachers more technology, but it kind of became my job. So. Maybe there's space for that to be, you know, a different ratio of how much I'm teaching students, how much I'm teaching teachers is right now. It's definitely heavier on the student side, maybe in the future.

That'll look differently. But I think right now I'm kind of. You know, straddling these two worlds and trying to make that dream a reality.

[00:51:31] Fonz: All right. That's pretty good. Well, my friend, you are doing some amazing work in both worlds. Again, I know, I, I know I've, I've said that probably multiple times throughout the show, but it's, it really is true.

And just really the passion that you share. That you have, and that really just comes from your shares is definitely obvious that you are in the right place and you are just doing some wonders. And hopefully, like you said, you know, now that you're straddling both worlds, who knows what can happen and that ratio can change, but the fact that you are where you're at right now, and you're doing some great work.

It's definitely, I don't think it's, it's a coincidence at all. And I just wish you the best. Best. And, you know, just continue doing what you're doing, my friend. And also, uh, you know, publicly, I want to thank you so much also for your support for this show, because I know that you, um, I, you know, I see your Instagram stories and then you'll put like, Hey, look, what am I doing during lunch?

And, you know, you've got a little bit of the podcast and things of that sort. So I, Shira, thank you so much for your support. It really means a lot. And thank you so much for coming back as a solo guest as well. And as always, like I tell all my guests. You always have an open invite. So whenever you'd like to come back, maybe some things change, you know, within four months, six months, you know, big things happening, or if we just want to continue the conversation, just feel free to reach out at any time.

And we can definitely make this happen. So thank you so much for being with us tonight and for all our audience members. Uh, that are checking this out live on the replay. Please make sure that you visit our website at myedtech. life, where you can check out this amazing episode and the other 200 plus episodes that we have.

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