Episode 271: Sally Ricker

Episode 271: Sally Ricker

Transforming College Curricula One Corporate Project at a Time

[00:00:30] Fonz: Hello everybody and welcome to another great episode of my ed tech life. Thank you so much for joining us on this beautiful day and wherever it is that you're joining us from around the world. I hope that today has been full of excellence and awesomeness.

So thank you so much for joining us wherever it is that you're joining us from around the world or here in the States. As always, thank you so much for all of your continued support. We appreciate all the likes, the shares, the. Follows. Thank you so much to all our brand new YouTube subscribers. As you know, our mission is to get to 1000 subscribers this year.

And we're at about maybe 280, 260 short around there. I haven't quite checked yet, but we're getting close guys. So we thank you so much. And at this time, I'd also love to thank my sponsors. Thank you so much to EduAid who is our newest sponsor. So please make sure you check them out. We have Lucid for education.

Goose chase content clips. Thank you so much for your support. Our show really appreciates it. And of course, all our audience appreciates it as well. So please make sure that you check them out and thank them for all of their support as well. But today I'm really excited. I have an amazing guest and we're going to be talking about something that to me is very innovative that I haven't seen that I can definitely connect with as far as what I went through in higher ed.

But I can definitely see this leading, you know, here in the K 12 space, maybe in the CTE and that, you know, leading up into, uh, you know, higher ed and so on. And, and then getting into the workforce. I was just really excited when, uh, Sally Ricker reached out to me, um, on LinkedIn. And so today we definitely have her here and she's going to be talking about this just amazing project that she's working on.

And it just really blew my mind. And I know that for many of you, this is going to be mind blowing. So Sally, how are you today? How are you doing today?

[00:02:30] Sally: Oh, I'm doing great. Thank you for having me on your show.

[00:02:33] Fonz: Oh, I'm excited. Sally, definitely excited since the first time we met and we had a great chat. And then today that I definitely get to pick your brain a little bit more.

But before we get into that, as you know, every superhero has an origin story. story, so I would love for you to kind of share a little bit about your origin story, your journey through education. And then of course, your journey into getting into this and thinking about this amazing project that I can't wait to dive into.

So give us a little bit of an introduction and your education journey.

[00:03:08] Sally: Okay. Well, um, I've been in education for 28 years. I'm a Missouri girl. Um, I retired from Missouri. Actually, I got out a little bit early after about 22 years and I, my background stem. So I've been a, I've been a physics and a chemistry teacher most of the time.

And so then I made a move and I, uh, I live in Joplin, Missouri now, and I actually work in Kansas. And so I've been over there for about 5 years and. They have a very unique opportunity there. Um, there is a, a program called CAPS and it started about 14 years ago in Blue Valley High School up in Kansas City.

And so I was already doing project based learning for about the past 15 years. I started, learned very quickly that my students were more engaged. Um, they really took ownership of their learning when I would create projects. Within my curriculum. So I had been doing that even in Missouri, and it followed me to the high school where I'm working, and I developed a research class within my physics room.

Um, and we started, I started, I continue that journey of turning my traditional stand up and lecture classes into projects. So, for example, I, 1 of my favorite subjects is nuclear energy. And so we found an international competition. Um, and we had to create a, uh, some type of tech platform to introduce nuclear technology to the younger generation.

So. That's what I've been doing this whole time. And so when I got to, um, my current district, they decided to adopt CAPS and CAPS stands for the center for applied and professional studies and some brilliant teacher, I'll have to give her credit in, in blue Valley, decided to take high school students and pair them with businesses in Kansas city and let them work on real world projects.

It just blew me away. I was like, it's taking project based learning to a brand new level. The highest level. So we adopted and in 14 years caps has grown from that one district to 125 school districts in five countries. So I've got to give them credit and kudos for that. Um, and so that's where I landed and I have been.

Researching, working on my doctorate, researching project based learning, the workforce, and then looking at my this CAPS program. And so, excuse me, so I, um, I really caught a hold of that and started to connect some dots between what's going on out in the workforce. We're scrambling, universities are scrambling to figure out how do you embed real world learning.

And produce a student that Corporate America is asked has been asking for for the past 34 years since the worldwide web hit in 1990. And so there's just been this chasm between graduates and what Corporate America is looking for. And this is it. So, even though I love caps, I work in caps every day. It's extremely effective.

It's the most effective thing I've ever seen in education in 28 years, but it's not efficient. And so I kept, you know, racking my brain. How, how am I going to get this to the next level? How do I get project based learning to the masses? And so, um, that's when my program was born. And so I'm going to do what they do in CAPS at a whole new level.

It's just taking it up a couple more notches. And now I've created this online. Corporate project portal for anybody in the world to be able to do these, these live real world projects in any degree program.

Oh,

[00:07:03] Fonz: that is great. Now, I want to kind of go back a little bit as talking about caps and like you mentioned, I think how great it is for a.

Student to be able to go and work and be paired up with a business. And like you said, that real world experience now, Sally, I know you being in education, uh, you know, and myself being in education, 18 plus years, you doing it, you know, for 20 plus years. But I am sure that you always heard like, Oh, we got to do real world, you know, experiences and we got to make those connections to the real world.

Well, what better way to actually do it and connect them to the real world with, you know, pairing them up with businesses. Oftentimes I think that. We use the buzzwords and we use the terminology, but really we're not doing anything other than what we've always done. And so I find it wonderful and refreshing that there are districts that are out there that are doing this.

Now, I don't know if it, if it. How big of a district is it? That is currently, you know, like you mentioned that that project was going on. Was it a fairly big district or was it a small district

[00:08:11] Sally: where I'm where I'm currently at? It's about there's about 1050 students. It's pretty good sized.

[00:08:16] Fonz: Yeah, it's a pretty good size district.

And so, but, like, I'm saying, I think that that is a wonderful idea in many times. What happens and what I've noticed is that, you know, even through our CTE programs. You know, they offer certain paths and tracks and you kind of go through those paths and tracks, but there really isn't too much of that connection to the real world.

It's like, yeah, you know, there's somebody that might want to pursue an associate's degree, maybe in kind of, uh, in medical or things of that sort. Yeah. You know, they go to the college, but I mean, for the other students that want to pursue something with business, there really isn't like a connection to, Hey, you know what, let's pair you up with this local business that you can shadow, that you can kind of see, see the marketing, see this aspect and so on.

And I find that very, that find that great. And as far as the project based learning and also. When you were talking and describing how, uh, you handled your class as far as teaching and not necessarily being that sage on the stage, but actually being that, you know, guide on the side. And you're really were a learn, we'll keep it kind of like in STEM terms, you were a learning engineer, so you nearing the students learning.

And I find that very reminiscent of the way that I used to handle, uh, teaching. Uh, the classroom when I was teaching in elementary where everything was project based and putting, you know, the tools and instruments in the students hands and then have them share the learning and share the learning with each other was something very powerful.

So now I want to ask you now, you said you, you are taking this model and now you're moving it to that next level. What kind of, uh, Like you mentioned, I know you said that, you know, many corporations are finding, finding it difficult to find some good talent that is out there. So I want to ask you, based kind of on your research and what you have done, uh, up until now, how did that idea kind of stem about or come about, I should say, because I know you mentioned that.

Maybe even the universities, you know, maybe they need to kind of change things up a bit. So is it based on your own experience too as well? Part of the research? What, what are some of the things that came to mind when you, you know, said, Hey, I've got something here that can definitely change higher education?

[00:10:36] Sally: Well, it really goes back to some, some of the research that I've done. There was a paper and there was two papers that connected the dots for me. The first paper was written in 1990, and it was called the scans report. It's the secretary's commission on, um, the necessary skills that students needed, they could foresee the future.

So it was a combination of politicians, businesses, and educators across the country, and they wrote this huge paper in 1990, and they started to outline these 21st century skills. And that's when that term first caught on, these 21st century skills. And so. Fast forward to 2021 and I read a new a new paper.

Um, it was a brief written by the committee on, um, on economics and it's a collaboration of 185 of the top companies in the U. S. and they write on. Things that are in crises in our country. And they wrote another brief on the 21st century skills needed. And those papers mirrored each other. So all of those, you know, 30 years later, they were still saying the same thing.

We're still not getting critical thinkers coming out of, out of the U. S. at universities. So I, I just started digging and doing more, more research towards what's, what's corporate America saying? What are they, what are they needing? And why? Why don't universities, why, why aren't they producing this type of student?

And so it really comes down to metrics. The universities are very confident. They're very confident that their students are ready because they are checking the boxes because the metrics of how they, um, not only how they train, but how they evaluate the students as they come out. Those students are checking the boxes.

They're making A's in those classes. They are nailing Chapter 1 through 8. They got an A. So the universities are confident that these students are ready, but that is not the same metrics that Corporate America uses to evaluate student success. Are they globally competitive? Can they critically think and problem solve for us?

How long do we have to hold their hand before they can actually produce some good work? That's So that's when I, I really realized, okay, we've got to, we've got to take this to a new level. How do we get, here's the other thing, professors, professors don't have time to go out and hit the street. Like, we have to do that in caps find.

How do you find these businesses? To do projects, that's almost a full time job in itself. How do you find those? So I was interviewing a lot of CAPS instructors and that was one of their number one for my own research. That was one of their number one complaints. We have so much trouble finding projects.

We keep going to the same companies over and over. So that's when this was really born was I have to provide universities, high schools, tech schools, a way to grab a project. So they don't have more on their plate. And so that's, that's when I created this and I was like, they, they have to be able to access and grab something for every single industry.

[00:13:43] Fonz: No, and that's definitely difficult. And a couple of things that, you know, you mentioned that really. Do stick out is number one, like you mentioned, you know, the students are getting a, they're graduating with 4. 0 is they're graduating 3. 9. So whatever the case is, you know, they, they look great on paper, but just that practical side of it.

And I guess I can liken it to kind of even in education. Now, my, my road in education was a little different. You know, I, I did get a. So I, I started off in business and sales and then I transitioned into education. So I did an alternative certification program, but one of the things that I did find is that as educators were coming in, it just seemed that, Hey, you know, we're, we're not prepping them.

Enough like, you know, the, the teacher prep programs, you know, maybe we're lacking a little bit, but in the sense of they're not teaching you what is really out there. I mean, if you do student teaching, you get an absolute picture of what it is that you might be getting into and how education works and so on.

But then the theory behind it, once you go in there, it's completely different. And the evaluation process is very different than the way your professors are, have evaluated you. The other thing that I kind of comes to mind, like you mentioned when, um, you've, you said, um, You know, how long do we have to hold their hands before they can go ahead and, uh, you know, either kind of blossom or spread their wings and so on.

The first thing that I thought about Sally is just, and I guess in my experience and what I've seen is state testing. And then I think that state testing from third grade on our students just kind of develop this thing of. Well, there's always got to be one right answer or, you know, just tell me what I need to do just to get the a tell me what I need to do just so I can pass and do this.

And there really isn't enough time for that critical thinking. Like you mentioned that hands on, like you were mentioning. You would do in your, um, STEM classes. And then of course the hands on experience that CAPS was offering. And you're absolutely right for a college professor to be out there too. And then for them, it just may be like, Hey, you know what?

I'm tenure here. Like I'm doing what I need to do. That's it. This is what they're evaluating me on. They're not evaluating me on anything extra that I may be doing. So, you know, there's so many variables there, but I love the fact that you saw a. Problem. And now you're working on that solution and partnering up with, you know, universities to be able to do this because, and I think this is such a wonderful thing for our current students that would be going through these programs because they're going to develop skills that are going to put them ahead.

From many other candidates that even if they're coming out of maybe like a really great named school, they don't or will not have that catalog of work that the student that's going through the CAPS or not the CAPS program, but through this program would have, and that's going to really set them apart.

And I think that's something wonderful. The other thing I just wanted to add, and I'm sorry, is just that the term that 21st century skills is something that I'm. Like, we're well into the 21st century. We're still talking about it. We're still talking about it. To me, I'm like, Hey, we should be working on 2030 or 2035 skills.

Like, why are we still talking about this? But again, it's just the buzzwords, the terminology. It sounds great. But are we really doing anything to move, um, towards that? And I feel that when you and I talked, I was like, this is amazing. Like, this is what we need to see more of, which is the work that you're currently doing.

So can you walk us through now, you know, now that you kind of described that problem that you were seeing and then kind of mirroring a little bit about that, mirroring a little bit about. Caps, I should say, bringing it up into higher ed. So talk to us about that process. What is it that you envisioned and how is it that you're seeing at work right now, or kind of being able to find ways to implement it into certain universities?

[00:17:59] Sally: Okay. Um, you may give you an example of like what a project might look like. Okay, so this was a high school project, but you've got it. You've got to really think big and see, okay, if a high school student can do this, what would this look like at the university stage? That's what's so exciting that are brilliant.

Adults come from brilliant high school students. And so, you know, we, we have found that this is working and it's got to work at college as well. So. Here's just a quick example of what, what do these look like? So I had, um, about 3 years ago, I had about 4 young boys, um, that were presented a problem from the city, city department.

And the particular, this, this gentleman was, uh, part of the housing, housing issues, like, um, homelessness properties that were left to the land bank that were neglected. And he just asked these boys here was the question. What would you do with this old abandoned building? That was 2 blocks off downtown.

That was the project. And so they really took this and flew with it and they ended up surveying high school students were surveying college students and other high school students. They got about 240 back, which is excellent for a survey. They, they presented this over 14 times to Kiwanis Rotary, uh, downtown advisory board.

It just caught fire when the city realized that these young people were very, they bought into this program. Um, And to this problem, everyone started listening and attending the meeting. So not only were the students excited and did they want a green space in place of that building? The adults wanted something as well.

So they started to voice their opinion. You know, they wanted. outdoor concerts downtown and a place to watch movies on the weekends and festivals and a Christmas tree lighting ceremony spot. So this it was just wonderful for our community. Everyone got on board and so it's not just a student project.

You start to embrace people in town. You know, we had We did the, the young men designed bathrooms to accommodate adults with disabilities. We thought about everybody. And so, you know, it culminated at the end of the nine month period. It got, it got a signature by the city manager. Then, um, so I'm going to fast forward three years.

This project is still the baby of our town. And so, uh, the community health center purchased the land. They tore down the building and they are in the process of fundraising. To continue to build this outdoor green space that was designed by my students. So if you'll think about that happening, this is what's so exciting to me.

That little story now blow it up across the country. Think about university students who are hungry for a real project. They're hungry to have corporate contacts. They could have multiple before graduation. That's the best part is they have these ePortfolios and they can have six stacked, you know, projects for people to look at.

So if you do this across the country and everybody's working on problems across our country, in every town and every city, You start making some real progress, and now you've got this generation of 18 to 23 year olds. Who, who are invested in their communities and they want to stay and they want to help build and, and, and continue the great work that they've been doing.

So, it's, it's not just a project is a vision of what this country could become. So, yeah, so that's kind of an example and that's where I see it heading. Um, so right now, where am I at? Well, I'm, I'm at the point of, um. Of 2 different pilots. I really need a good pilot with some good data. Um, I'm a scientist at heart, and that data is going to drive this program.

So I do have a pilot starting next month. Um, it is with an international university. I did not plan to go international and that just happened. LinkedIn is, um, has been my friend. And so people find my, they find me on LinkedIn, and they want to know more about what is this? What is this corporate project portal?

So, um, Connelly University is my 1st pilot. And so that will run and I'll be working with a very large nonprofit in the US. Um, that nonprofit have happens to have, um, you know, places all over the world where they, you know, work with. Uh, provide assistance. So it's going to be a great collaboration. Um, and then I also have another, uh, a pilot with a U S university and a high school at the same time.

So I'm going to get data from both, um, you know, secondary and higher ed and that one will run in the fall. And then the plan, the plan is to open up this project portal in January for everybody. So

[00:22:51] Fonz: that is one,

[00:22:53] Sally: I'm working on, I'm working on some really good corporate. Partnerships right now.

[00:22:57] Fonz: That's great.

And you know, one of the things that I want to highlight too, as well, Sally, that you mentioned is the whole portfolio thing. I mean, it is so important. I mean, without me even knowing, like, you know, the importance of portfolios at the time, even when I was teaching fifth grade, you know, I, I. Everything that the students did, I'd say, okay, we're going to save it in your Google drive.

We're going to create your digital portfolio. And so I was that one teacher that when parents would show up to open house, they, they would never take any papers home with them because I would just say, Hey, just show them your ePortfolio and everything is there. And that's all the work because everything we did was digital, but it.

Like you mentioned, being able to share their projects and you said those stacks of projects, I think to me was very important. And now when I went into my master's program, my master's program in educational technology, there was no comprehensive. There were never any exams at all whatsoever. During, uh, the coursework at the end of the year, or actually at the end for graduation, we just had to submit an e portfolio with all our projects.

But the way that the class was run is, okay guys, we're going to meet and we would meet for about 30 minutes, just kind of like as a, just a guidance and so on. And then, you know, here's some selected reading and so on. But really all the, all the classwork was, you're going to find a real world problem, whether it's at your job.

Or somewhere else or anything that you feel that there's an issue that you would need to solve, but we want you to apply these principles that you're learning. You can use any technology tool as long as we see the solution, we see the work, we see the write up, we see all of that. And that was our project.

And to me, I found that to be the most beneficial because everything that I was learning. I was just applying it at work. I was doing like new lesson plans, new teacher training, um, finding problems for certain things. And I would go and, uh, of tutorials, things of that sort. I mean, it really helps me apply it to what I'm currently working in.

Now I have that e portfolio built out. Now, when I moved to my doctoral studies, I was like, Oh my gosh, these, this is so boring. And, and again, I mean, no, it it's just because it wasn't my style. It was like, everything was just reading, reading, reading, writing, writing, writing. However, All of a sudden in my last two years, it's like my prof out of nowhere is like, okay, you've got a choice board.

All right. Awesome. So now we have this, we have a menu and then one, uh, one semester we did a project and it was also ungrading. Like you're going to do the project, but you're going to kind of grade yourself and you have to justify all these things. And I was like, Oh, wow. But you're still solving a real world problem.

We still had to go interview. We were talking about curriculum. We were talking about all these things, but it was so exciting. And I think that's what there needs to be a little bit more of in education. Just that excitement, that hands on learning and really making those. Those connections, like you mentioned in the very beginning, that real connection is so important because one, one thing is just to learn about it, sitting in a class through a worksheet, through a book, but when you're actually putting it in action and learning a little bit more and diving in deeper in that experience can really take you to a whole other level.

So I applaud your work and what you're doing and bringing this into, uh, you know, the universities and. Hopefully this is going to expand and go even bigger. So now I want to ask you, as far as the way that the program is going to work, is this, you know, for the university said it was Conley university. So is this going to be something that.

students can just sign up for? Is it right now currently just for one department? Tell us a little bit about how that's going to work to get students in and what the expectation is for those students at the end of the coursework.

[00:27:03] Sally: Well, so for Conley, she wants to open it up to her, her MBA program. As well as another, she's going to select another school within her university.

So we're going to see, we're going to be able to get that data from two different perspectives, students that are already, you know, working on their masters. Um, so we really, we'd like to keep it since it's a pilot, we're probably going to offer two projects. So normally, you know, when this really rolls out, There's going to be projects loaded by companies all over the U.

1. and we're going to we're going to make sure all 165 sub industries are represented. And so choice and voice. You said something earlier about students choosing choice and voice is a huge part of project based learning. And the students should be able to grab and embed. A project that they feel is most beneficial for their degree.

So whether it's they just want to go work for IBM, well, then go grab an IBM project and let someone see you. They're really impressed them. So you're going to get an interview. Someone's going to notice you. Um, or it might be they want to work. You know, they just really want a business, a really good business project to add to their portfolio.

So, um, we're, we're going to probably work on 2, 2 different projects loaded into the portal and let her students choose. So they at least get a taste of choice and voice. Um, and then they will have about a 6 week period of working on this. Um, they will have a, I've just created a video. This. This is going to be run from videos, really.

So I can train people very quickly. You can train a professor how to do this in six hours. They're going to love it. They're going to they're just going to love the freedom that they have of allowing these students just to just to go to the go through the roof on on learning. So. The training is, is, is wonderful, the videos and so this corporate America will have their own set.

Of course, as the students and instructors, it's all different, but it'll all come together seamlessly. The students will form their own teams, which is wonderful. Anywhere from 1 up to 4 students. This is a competition. I don't think I mentioned that. So, let's say JP Morgan chase loads of project. Up to 30 teams will compete to find the best solution based on JP Morgan's metrics.

What are they looking for? Did they really solve the problem? What'd they bring to the table? That was different? You can't cheat and use AI in this. AI is not creative, so these students will learn very quickly. It's creativity that's gonna drive this. So JP Morgan will meet with those students initially.

They'll introduce themselves to the team. They'll make sure they stay within the parameters, so they'll say, okay, um, no outliers. We need to stay here. Um, and then the students get to work. They have to figure the another part of the critical thinking is who's your team. Your best friend might not be your best teammate on this.

Who do you want? You may not even know your teammates. They may be, um, for my pilot, 1 student might be in Taiwan and 1 might be, um, in Hawaii. So you have to, you have to pick carefully. That's part of the process. Corporate America needs to put projects in carefully. You've got to catch people's attention.

You need to have some really good projects. So everybody has to be on their game for this. Um, and so Corporate America won't have a huge responsibility in training. Um, they just need to meet with the teams a couple of times to make sure they're staying on track to see if the students have any questions.

Um, and then probably 2 or 3 different times they need to be able to email back and forth with the team leader. They're not going to get 120 emails. They're going to only communicate with the team lead. And then, um, Then the final presentation, the instructors will also keep them within the lane. The instructors will take daily questions.

Um, can we use this platform? Are we allowed to embed Canva into our project? Those types of questions and then we will have the end the end presentations. Most of these, of course, will be through zoom unless you choose a project that's in your hometown. That's another that's another way to be a great critical thinker.

No, I, I'd kind of like to meet with these people in person, but not everyone's going to have that opportunity. So then they do the final presentations, um, corporate America is going to pick the best project. And then I didn't mention that there's another level of this. And then I have created, uh, the PBL draft, which is, um, I like football.

So I like that title. Um, so I had decided that these top. Project winners are going to be pipelined into my, um, subscription recruitment journal for the best project based learning projects in the country. So corporate America can go in there and click on Sally Ricker, and they can look at my 6 or 8 projects that I've done in college, um, and they can see my progress.

They can see how I've grown as a freshman until the end as a senior, because, you know, what these students are going to learn. This is the most beautiful part. There are steps to critically thinking, and it doesn't matter what your project looks like. You repeat those steps through anything. You're still going to use project management tools, and you're going to, you're going to brainstorm and dump those into buckets and you just do that every time.

It's just for a different employer or a different company. And so corporate America is going to be able to click on, uh, This student and they're going to see their progress and they're going to see they are a critical thinker. They can come to work for me on day one and get something done.

[00:32:30] Fonz: That is great.

This is really exciting. Sally, like seriously, like right now, I'm just like, Wow, if this was available, you know, just here in my university or in any university, actually, it's like, you're absolutely, you're absolutely right. You know, there, there is a hunger for something different for that added value. Now, a couple of things I do want to highlight is number one, as you were talking, um, And describing really what the professor would do again, being that learning engineer and really stepping down and being that guide on the side, because the students already have kind of that rubric or the, the expectations have been set by the company based on the project, as far as where they can go and where they can reside in and so on.

So that's great. Another thing that you hit on is just that collaborative experience or collaboration. I mean, it's very difficult many times. And even through my master's program, I mean, it's not easy because you're online, you're in a different time zone, uh, you know, work gets in the way, family, things of that sort.

So being able to kind of juggle all those things and manage. You know, that's something that is a valuable skill, how to adapt to those situations, how to improvise should something not go right, either during the presentation time or during the project. And also it works on helping somebody overcome those difficulties or barriers that maybe they didn't see were there or, you know, working together.

And I think that's something that. We don't see often in practice, sure. We see it, you know, sometimes it's like, oh, we're going to do group work, but it doesn't go into that level where everybody's heavily vested into a project and where there is an end result that can make a huge difference. Uh, especially when you're doing a project for a major corporation and they get to see your work and you get to highlight your skills, but not only that, uh, I think what I love too, Sally, is that this is kind of a project where kind of in the sense, everybody wins from everybody on the team and the fact that they all learn from each other, see things from different perspectives.

And I think that's something that is valuable also and crucial skill that's needed in the workforce, you know, being able to collaborate, communicate, co create. And that's one thing that you hit on too, as well, how creative you have to be in order to produce something that you're not necessarily going to just say, Oh, I'll just go ahead and pop this into this generative AI tool.

And it's just going to go ahead and give me my answer. And okay, we're done guys. Like seriously,

[00:35:09] Sally: 15 projects are going to look just the same. Cause AI is going to pump out the same, same information. But, um, yeah, they, they're going to have to be creative. Yeah.

[00:35:18] Fonz: Yeah. And that's a skill too, that I wanted to kind of dive into in a way that, uh, many years ago, I think it was about two years ago, or maybe almost even three years.

Cause I've been doing this podcast for a while. I had a guest on, uh, her name's, uh, Tisha Ponceo and one of the things that she was working as a high school teacher and it was a computer teacher. And so she was just talking to her students and, and, you know, talking about creativity and what she told me is that she noticed that her students from third grade, all the way to ninth grade, um, well, not necessarily her students, but she was saying like from third to ninth, there was kind of this dip in creativity, but then after ninth to 12, it kind of just kind of started going up slowly.

And I never realized that from third through ninth grade. Many students there. The main focus is always state testing, so there is no room for creativity. It's always go, go, go, go, go, because we need to make sure we crank out those numbers. But here I love the fact that creativity, I think, is in the forefront of these projects because you definitely need that creative process to work together with everybody.

And I think that's that skill that Is going to be that 2035 skill that we need to be working on, you know, no, or actually I should say 22nd century skill or 23rd century skill. Now, you know, that we need to have, especially now, like you mentioned with the age of generative AI. And you said, like, it just seems like everything.

At some point, everything's going to look very cookie cutter and it's going to look the same. Well, what's going to set you apart from the rest? And so that's wonderful. Now, I wanted to talk to you a little bit more, like you mentioned. So just to get this right and wrap my brain around it. So the, each, this, uh, these projects, it's going to be through the length of that program.

Correct. It's not going to be just one semester of an MBA. It's going to be something that's going to be continuous throughout the year. Through the whole MBA process, right? Because you mentioned that there would be like about a stack of six projects that would be done by the time you graduate.

[00:37:27] Sally: Well, my here's my end game.

I would like to see universities are really stuck. They're stuck in that four year degree. Let's focus on four year universities, you know, 1st, but they're stuck in that 4 year program. It's their business. I've been told it's their business model. They need students in there for 4 years to pay the bills.

We have to get past that. So I'm like, how do we get through? How do we get over that and change the curriculum? Um, what I would like to see happen is. Let's get rid of the fluff classes in college. So I went back and looked at my biology major chemistry degree that I got years and years ago. And I looked that up at my alma mater.

I was shocked that you can still take jewelry making and history of pilgrims for a biology major. No one has ever asked me about that. Corporate America could care less about that. That is not a well rounded student that may have been a well rounded student back in 1980. That is not what corporate America says is a well rounded student.

They want students who can create and collaborate and communicate and have critical thinking skills. And that is the number. Those are the top 4. So we have got to get over the well rounded student courses. And instead, we need to pluck those out of that degree program. And we need to insert these corporate project Uh, this, this program for these projects.

So my, my ideal situation would be you start as a freshman. If you've never done this before, it's almost like an exploratory class, grab a project, see how this works. There's a lot of reflection that goes on in this program. You reflect. Why did that person? When? Why didn't I? We'll go look at their project.

Compare that and reflect on your learning. So if you start as a freshman and you do one every semester, by the time you graduate in a four year program, you're going to have eight of these, sorry. Um, so I, I, my end game is you, you remove some of the fluff and you put in these projects and by the time you're done, you are, you are very competent.

that corporate America is looking for. Excellent. So that's what I would like to see happen.

[00:39:35] Fonz: And you know, I agree with you on that, you know, you know, honestly, and I think that's one of the things that kind of, uh, I appreciate because it's different, it's like, now I'm thinking about myself going back and going through my business degree and I'm like, you know, I didn't really need this.

And I didn't really need this because I'm going into business now. I'm not saying that. There wasn't anything of value there, but again, like you mentioned, it's like, if you're going into corporate America, these are the four major things that they're talking that they need as far as students. And you can definitely gain all of that experience through these projects as well.

And then of course, you know, like you mentioned, what I loved was. If I didn't do well, you've got these wonderful exemplars of those students that did do well. So what did they do different that you can now take and sprinkle on to what you already did and just take yourself to that next level and then be ready.

And it's a continuous project. So now I want to ask just the two of you. To kind of clarify too on this aspect. So let's say they start as a freshman. So every semester, this is just kind of walk me through, they're doing one project that they would be competing in now at the end, like you mentioned, you mentioned that the winners, is it the winners from every semester that would be put into your catalog that you would have available to corporate America, or is it at the end, you know, is there like, um, I guess, uh, Not like a grand champion, but like, you know, just kind of, uh, there will be, yeah.

There's,

[00:41:10] Sally: I'm going to, I'm going to take, so there could be thousands literally in a couple of years, we could have thousands of projects going on. So we're going to look at the top, the winner of each project and they will get pipelined over. And then I'm going to have, I'm going to have a board of directors or something like that in the journal that, um, so I'm not voting.

So we'll keep it honest. I want them to pick the top 100. I want Caterpillar and Chevron and Phillips 66. I want them to say, I'm going to get in that journal. I want to look at the top 100 students and the projects that they did in this country. It's international as well, so I'm going to have a high school section in the journal, a US section and an international section.

So it really depends on what corporate America is looking for. But you can find the top critical thinkers in the world in my journal.

Oh,

[00:42:07] Fonz: I love that. That is wonderful. I mean, uh, to me, Isn't that going to be fun? That makes me so excited about education. No, but it is so exciting and so novel in the sense that, I mean, for me, I feel like if I were to go through this project myself, the fact that I have A better chance or access, not only am I learning from these projects that these companies are putting into this portal and I'm learning, it's almost like I get to choose my pathway and say, okay, you know, maybe there's IBM, but Hey, you know what, maybe, maybe Caterpillar's over here, let me try that industry.

And then let's focus on that and see, and then you get to see. And experience what a little bit of what real corporate life is and you're working on it and you're doing these projects that at the end, like you said, I get to be in this wonderful catalog, uh, you know, that I get to have visibility and have options, you know, that there is going to be, yes,

[00:43:05] Sally: yes.

Um, I get very, I'm very passionate about this. Another one of my very favorite things is this is going to be so affordable. I want it affordable. I want, I want a student in one of the poorest districts in this country to have the same fighting chance to win a project as a student who's been destined since birth.

To attend Princeton, nothing against any of the schools. It's just, it's where you're born and we can't help any of that, but let's give everyone this chance, you know, let, let a student from Jackson, Mississippi have a chance because guess what? They're brilliant. They just need a place to shine. So I'm so excited to be able to offer this to everyone.

No exclusions. Everyone's on the same page. Go out and impress them. And I think kids will get goosebumps. They'll be like. I get a chance to do this. I'm going to go up against kids from Boston and Seattle and I can win this just as easily. And then once, so once a project wins in a, in a, in a rural school like mine or, you know, a little school in Arizona or whatever, you know, they're going to get, they're going to catch fire.

If they can do it, we can do it. And that's what I want. I want this to be intrinsically motivated. I want students to keep driving. How good can I become? Some students have never reached their, they don't reach their potential and maybe not till they're 30. I want to see kids reach their potential so much sooner.

So, and then another end game have lots of end games. But another one is, I would like to see corporate America, yeah. Adopt school districts that don't have much to spend. They can't do this. They can't spend 59 on every student to have access to projects for a year. Okay, then you need to call me. We need to set up and collaborate so that Walmart.

Adopts Jackson, Mississippi. Let's adopt them, give every student a project every single year. And that doesn't mean all the projects are for Walmart. It just means Walmart is going to back this or Lowe's or home Depot and let them, let them let these kids just, um, be all they can be.

[00:45:16] Fonz: I love that. You know, this is so great, Sally.

This is wonderful. And you're absolutely right. Even just with those portfolios and giving opportunity, it's something that's very intrinsic. And it, and I don't know, it just even reminded me still of being in the classroom with the students, how they highly motivated themselves to work on the next project and take it to the next level.

Now I'm talking about fifth graders and sixth graders, but how much more now, you know, for those high school students and then even. For college students, like I mentioned to you that are looking for something different, you know, again, nothing against my university and institution. I love them, but it wasn't until that last two semesters in, before starting dissertation, that one of my profs, just, I don't know, just out of nowhere offered that choice board and I was like, Oh my gosh, like this is such a breath of fresh air and, and it just made me more excited about the project and then so on.

And. I can definitely see this. So Sally, thank you so much for this wonderful share and the work that you're doing. And so Sally, for all our audience members that are catching this, you know, on the, the replay, and they're interested in getting some more information, or maybe there's, you know, maybe some companies that would love to reach out to you and help support, what's the best way that they can go ahead and reach out to you to get some more information and get in contact with you?

[00:46:37] Sally: Well, they can absolutely go to my website. It's a pblcompany. com and, um, there are a few buttons on there where they can fill out some information. It'll go directly to me. Um, they can also find me on LinkedIn and they can, they're, they're feel free to message me there. And, um, and so I think, I think either, either Avenue is going to, you're going to be able to reach me.

[00:46:59] Fonz: Excellent. No worries. And we'll definitely make sure guys, this is going to be, all the information will be linked to the show notes as well. So if you're listening and this really caught your attention and you see the potential in this, and you want to get some more information of possibly even bringing it to your district or your university, or you just want to collaborate and just pick Sally's brain more.

Please feel free to reach out to her. Yeah. Please reach out. She is amazing. She's wonderful. And she definitely has a passion for this. So please make sure that you do reach out. Well, Sally, before we wrap up our show, I always love to end the show with the last three questions here. And these are the popular questions that all our audience loves to hear, uh, from our guests or the responses that our guests give.

So here we go. Question number one. We know that every superhero has a weakness and for Superman, that kryptonite was his weakness, or we can think about it as a pain point. So I want to ask you, Sally, in the current state of education, what would you consider to be your current edu kryptonite?

[00:48:07] Sally: So my pain point in education right now.

It would have to be what I mentioned earlier is that, um, we're so close to bridging universities and corporate America. This little piece is missing. And I think my program's that. So I think that's what it is is that we were so close to being able to produce students that are ready to go to work. And so I, I think that would be it for me.

It's just that little missing link.

[00:48:36] Fonz: I love that. Wonderful. All right. Next question. If you could have a billboard with anything on it, what would it be and why?

[00:48:46] Sally: What would it be? My billboard? I think my billboard would of course say something about education, but it would say get back to the basics. I, I think we're, I think we're going down some of the wrong roads in education.

Um, I think we have to make sure our students are safe. I think we have to make sure that we are giving them the skills to be successful. Um, and I, I I'll just leave it there, but I feel, I feel in my heart that we're missing just some of the basics to teach our children to be good citizens.

[00:49:21] Fonz: So it was back to the basics.

Love it. Simple, but powerful. Definitely a lot behind that for sure. All right. And the last question, Sally, is do you have a favorite activity or hobby that you wish you could turn into a full time profession?

[00:49:41] Sally: Yes, I love to sing, but it's not very, I don't do it very well. So if I could, if I could sing, um, and make a living out of that, I would do that.

I probably know the words to five or 6, 000 songs, but no one's going to buy them.

[00:49:56] Fonz: Wow. Well, professional singer. There we go. I love it. Well, you never know. Maybe one of these days we'll definitely be, well, maybe one of these days. We will all be singing you praises for the work that you're doing and the way that this is going to take off and just really, you know, do wonders for the college students and making those connections with corporate America and giving them an opportunity.

Like you said, the goal is to help students reach their full potential a lot earlier and give them access to these projects and give them access to Corporate America training and learning at such an early age. So I'm definitely excited about what you're doing and the projects that you're working on.

And I definitely wish you the best. And hopefully, like I said, maybe within six months, eight months or so, I would definitely love to have you back on the show. And then just to kind of give us an update, share some successes, share all of those things. So this is an open invite for you to definitely reach out and come back because I myself too, Would love to hear more about what things happen and how everything continues to grow and see some of those results too.

Maybe even be a judge or something. I don't know. I'm just throwing myself out there, but anyway,

[00:51:12] Sally: thank you so much for having me on today. It's exciting. I'm passionate about this and, um, you know, I just, we got to get the word out. This is, I think this is a new education revolution.

[00:51:23] Fonz: Absolutely. Well, thank you, Sally.

And for all our audience members, thank you so much for listening to this episode. Please make sure that you visit our website at myedtech. life where you can check out this amazing episode and the other 270 episodes that we have with educators, creators, education, practitioners, founders, and so many more.

 I promise you that you will find a little bit of something there for you that you can take and sprinkle onto what you are already doing great. So thank you all always for your support and please make sure that you follow us on all socials.

Thank you so much. And until next time, my friends, don't forget. Stay techie