Episode 291: Anna Shildrick & Lucy Hutchinson

Episode 290 Reimagining Education's Future with Anna Shildrick and Lucy Hutchinson

[00:00:30] Fonz: Hello everybody. I welcome to another great episode of my ed tech life. Thank you so much for joining us on this beautiful day and wherever it is that you're joining us from around the world. Thank you as always for making us part of your listening pleasure.

We appreciate all the likes, the shares, the follows. Thank you so much for engaging with our content on social media, on YouTube. Thank you so much for all of your support. The reviews have been phenomenal. Thank you. Thank you. As always, as you know, we do what we do for you to bring you some amazing guests like we have today and some amazing conversations that can help nurture the education landscape.

And of course, thank you. To continue learning and learning from one another in, you know, different modes and different ideas and different perspectives. So I am excited to be here this morning with Anna Sheldrick and Lucy Hutchinson, who are joining me today. Ladies, how are you this morning?

[00:01:26] Anna: Great. Nice

[00:01:26] Fonz: to be here.

 Yes, absolutely. I'm really excited to have you I know that we're very much kind of in the same network.

[00:01:33] Fonz: Um, you know, people that we follow and so on. And of course the conversation centered around education and of course, uh, AI in education. So I'm really excited to have you here today to share the amazing conversations that you all are having, the work that you're doing and just the ideas that not only are you putting out, but also the things that you are also learning from everybody that you're engaging with.

So I'm really excited about that. So before we dive in. For all our audience members that may not be familiar with your work yet, or maybe haven't connected with you yet, we'll go ahead and get started with a little brief introduction and what your context is within the education space. So we'll go ahead and get started with Anna.

Anna, go ahead and give us a little brief introduction.

[00:02:20] Anna: Yeah, thanks so much. I'm a super fan of your podcast and I really wanted to chat with you because I think that we're doing a lot to help teachers at the moment.

And I'll get to that, but initially I am, and I'm from the UK. I've lived in Mexico for the past. Actually, I arrived 30 years ago. Went back to England for a few years to have my kids came back 22 years ago, lived here ever since working in education. It wasn't my life plan, but I work in education, ended up finding a real vocation.

in teaching and school transformation. So I realized that wherever I went, I could see potential opportunities to do things in a better way to make sure that the service that we provide is quality for, for students, not just our factory model, you know, just noticing that we, the things that we needed to do to change.

And so I've worked in that for a very long time. You know, always shouting about we need to change. We need to change. We need to do this differently. And then AI came along and we said, this is the time. This is, if this isn't. the moment to stop and rethink our systems from scratch, then I don't know when, you know, that time would be.

So we're trying to really grab this moment to use our voice to say, Hey, you know, there are other ways of doing this. There are better ways of doing this. And, and this is what we do is we help schools to do things differently. So that's where I am in my, in my career at this one. I also do a lot of other things, but this is our focus at this moment.

[00:03:52] Fonz: Excellent. And maybe we'll dive in into those other things later on also as well, you know, just to kind of keep the conversation light. But thank you so much for that great introduction. And also very interesting background, you know, UK, going to Mexico, going back to the UK and now residing back in Mexico.

And that's wonderful. You know, just being that Mexico is just about A good 25 minute drive from me, at least, you know, getting in here since I live right down here in Texas in a border town and grew up visiting Mexico a lot. So I'm really excited to hear about your learning experiences there as well.

And also what you're doing there for the education community. So that's wonderful. Lucy, how about yourself? Give us a little brief introduction and what your context is in the education space.

[00:04:33] Lucy: Sure. Thanks. Um, and I'm also super excited. A fan have seen some of the episodes and it's always a lively, exciting conversation.

So super excited to be part of it. I'm Lucy Hutchinson. I'm from Pennsylvania and I have a similar story to Anna in some ways as I've been in Mexico for about 25 years. Went back to the United States and had one of my babies in Texas and yeah, right. And then my second baby was born here and outside of, uh, Mexico city about two hours here in Cuernavaca and I've been here for a really long time.

I love it. I love it. Um, and I think, am I right that everybody on this call also speaks Spanish? Everybody here? Yeah. Todos, todos aqui

[00:05:19] Fonz: hablamos espanol. So all of us, we may be doing some code switching. That, that will be my first episode where we'll do some code switching here. So that's awesome.

[00:05:28] Lucy: Órales, vámonos.

So, um, and I came in, I wasn't planning to be an educator either. Uh, all my family, all my mom's family are educators. So I feel like I didn't have a choice. My sister and brother both became teachers and I was in the classroom happily living my life. Kind of like with my blinders on going out for my enchiladas and coming to the pool and just living my, my life here in Mexico very happily.

And when I started to, uh, open up when my girls got a little bit older and I started opening up and exploring. All of the options out there because I consider myself an educational explorer. That just means I'm I like to know stuff and investigate. I get curious about things. I started started seeing that there's this whole world out there with these amazing people doing amazing things with all of these ideas of how to make education more meaningful for students.

And I believe I'm so excited. I'm so optimistic. I believe that there's so much that we can do in education that should. We'll make learning more meaningful. And then I think that translates to make our lives more meaningful.

[00:06:38] Fonz: Yes, absolutely. No, and agree with you 100 percent with everything. And, you know, being in education for, this will be my going on my 19th year now in education altogether.

And again, Never thought that I would be in education. I'm just an education trans transplant, you know, but all of a sudden, you know, I just grew roots and I absolutely fell in love with everything about education. But you mentioned, and both of you mentioned, uh, something that is really near and dear to my heart too, is always that vision of trying to do things.

differently, you know, there is more than one way to do things. And obviously to the advantage of helping our students enhance the learning experience and also for our educators to really just get out of that comfort zone and just think outside the box with many ideas that are out there. And I think that oftentimes due to, you know, curriculums, timelines, and things of that sort, the things that need to be taught, which I understand those things need to be done.

But if we can at least ideate and make it in. presented in a different way that can also be helpful and refreshing to teachers, but also very refreshing and very hands on for students also as well to get them to have discourse and, you know, be able to speak and, and create and create content around the learning and have them be those content creators for their education.

That's something that is great and wonderful. So I kind of have a feeling that this conversation is definitely going to be awesome and amazing. And really, we're definitely going to be able to, uh, to click on those things. So let's go ahead and get started a little bit on that because now I'm curious too, because now, you know, Lucy from Pennsylvania, we've got Anna from the UK and then, you know, moving into Mexico and working there in Mexico.

So before we dive in a little bit more, I, I want to get a little bit more from you and a little bit more context as far as what it is that you're seeing. Within the education space in Mexico and what their thoughts are on what they're seeing with, of course, Gen AI. So, uh, we'll go ahead and start with Lucy.

What have been your experiences and what have you learned from, you know, our educators in the Mexico education space?

[00:08:48] Lucy: It's amazing to see, uh, I think this is true for everywhere we go around the world, how diverse the landscape is. So in one area, you're going to see those early adapters, just like in the United States, right?

Or just like in the UK, we see people that are just diving in head first, let's, let's explore this. Let's, and then we have the opposite end of the spectrum as well. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, this has nothing to do with me. I don't need it. I don't want it. It's weird. And I don't want to get involved.

So, you know, we see everything from one side to the other, uh, but then most of the people that I've worked with now are, you know, amazed at the possibilities. And I think that that's, um, one of our main ideas, uh, that we'll talk about more in a little bit here is just, again, that AI is kind of like this promise, right?

Of all of these things that are coming our way. And it's not smooth and easy yet. And I don't think AI is the answer to all of education's concerns, but I do think it's the catalyst. To finally breaking away from that, uh, Anna touched on it earlier, that, that factory model of education that just doesn't work anymore.

[00:10:04] Fonz: Yeah, no, I agree with you on that. And how about, uh, you, Anna, what are your thoughts? What have you seen? I'm very curious, just, and as well as our audience members too, as well. What have you learned? What have you seen? I mean,

[00:10:15] Anna: I would echo what Lucy said. We see a little bit of everything, but I'll speak to the other side of that, that spectrum where we saw, we've seen a lot of fear, but we talk with people from all over the world, Lucy and I host a round table, free round table for people to just drop in and talk about their ideas, their perspectives, their concerns, their fears.

And we have people dropping in from all over the world, but we see a lot of fear. And that's what created our, desire to, you know, to let's provide this space so we can all jump in and say, okay, what, what are we afraid of? You know, what, what is that big monster that everybody's, you know, uh, you know, seeing in the closet when they go to bed at night and just putting out on the table.

Um, but it's, it is our goal really to help people to say, you know, in order to innovate, in order to do any. Improvement in what it is that we do, we need to play around. We need to get our hands dirty. We need to, you know, just see what it's about. And so, you know, we see a little bit of everything people really trying.

Okay, give me a week to kind of see what chat. I don't want to, but okay, I'll try it. And other people who are just like, okay, I've got it. I've got this all down. And one of our concerns is, I think everybody who's working in education today is, is ensuring that AI enhances rather than prevents learning.

And so, you know, we really, really want to allow people to go through that thinking process. Well, if I use AI, to very quickly produce 25 lesson plans. Is that just faster? Is it better or just faster? You know, we really need to look at that. And so a lot, I think everybody that we speak to is just trying to work it out.

What can it do? And how can it actually bring quality rather than just speed to what we're doing? And that's one thing that, you know, we are generally concerned about is, will AI just come along to make our current system? We're faster at doing what we do already and not really taking the time to think.

About how we do it better, and I think it can be overwhelming and intimidating, especially for busy teachers and all teachers are busy. It's inherently part of the job that you're busy, um, to have the time to sit down. So I think where my, my attention is drawn to help people who feel overwhelmed, a little bit intimidated.

Let's create a space where we can play with it. And, and I think that that's growing Lucy, do you agree that you were starting to see more people open to, to playing with it.

[00:12:53] Lucy: Yeah, definitely. And, um, that's my favorite thing to do is play. And I would play with, I've, I've had students that are three online, you know, 20 of them at a time to have in person or, uh, teaching teachers, adults that are 63, and I think lots of times we'll say as educators, let's, Oh, with little kids, we're going to play.

Um, I don't think it matters how old you are or where you are. We all like to play. If we make it fun, it's going to be memorable. And if we make it purposeful on top of that, then I think that's when real learning can happen.

[00:13:31] Fonz: And you know, I, there's so much that I want to unpack from what you said that is really resonating with me.

And as you know, like my stance with Gen AI, for me, it's all about data privacy on the student side aspect of it, you know, I, that's where I'm very, very overly cautious, I would say, just because of the terms of service and all of those things. But when it comes to the adults and the teachers and even myself, I mean, there are some things that, you know, that I do use it for.

To help and to help just enhance just either something that I need to do, or just help some speed, something up that I need to do where it, it isn't too much of, you know, it's very detrimental that I'm going to get this right or nail it. It's really just like the thought partner or just throwing ideas and out there doing those things.

And even though we understand that this is like a synthetic text extruding machine, those, those are the phrases that many people use too, as well. And all those things. But one of the things that I want to touch on is that you mentioned it's, It's that promise, that catalyst. And I don't know, like this year has been very different for me and it's hit differently because, you know, every year I always feel like this is the year, this is the year where things are going to change and things are going to change.

And then at the end, we just kind of fall right back in into our comfort zone. But like you mentioned with generative AI and with all the hype and what everybody has been doing and, uh, it. To me, it's really like you're saying, it has started a conversation that has been well past due, and now it's focusing more on how can we do education better.

And like you mentioned, not necessarily having to use Gen AI all the time, but at least having the conversation of how to do things differently. And I just want to go back and give a shout out to my great friend, Dr. Nika McGee, who I listened to on a podcast a while back, and she made a reference to saying like, you know, Lots of industries change, lots of industries adapt and so on.

So you see that growth, that change, different place settings and so on. But then she, I think she was a big, uh, like Star Trek fan or something like that, and that even like, since Star Trek is based in the future, like, Like the, I believe there was an episode where they were in a classroom, but the classroom still looks the same as it did back in the industrial revolution days.

You have a line, everything's lined up. You have a teacher, you have your clock that dismisses you, you have a bell. And it's almost like you're, you're really being programmed for that, you know, be, being a worker, but. Back in the day. So why can't we change that and make things a little bit different? We don't need to have those assigned seats.

We just have to have those conversations, have students play. Like you mentioned, I am a big proponent of that where students are able to do a lot of hands on instruction and of course, learning the content and presenting it as they're learning, because. Oftentimes we focus on the end product, but we never focus on the process how we get there.

So I think that that right now, Lucy, when you mentioned that really resonates with me that I wish we could. do this differently. However, at the same time, like Anna, you mentioned the fear, you know, and, and it's okay that, and we have to also accept that, that there are people that are, have that fearful feeling of this and really just say, Hey, it's okay to feel this way and acknowledge that, normalize that fear and not be like, Oh, come on.

It's just technology. Like do it, do it. No, no. It's like, do it. You have to work with them and you have to help them feel comfortable, like you were saying, like, Hey, I, I don't wanna try it. You have those teachers that you might be working with that are like, no, I'm hesitant. Well, let's just play, let's have some fun.

And you know, when I do some, uh, professional development, especially when we're doing like with Adobe Express and things of that sort, my main focus is I tell 'em, look, I know that this is gonna be for the students, but I say for a bit now what we're here. I want you to have some fun because oftentimes, even as teachers and educators, we lose ourself in what we do that we almost forget that creative component and having that fun and play and experimenting.

And that could be valuable not only to us, but also to our students. So, uh, like I said, I just really wanted to unpack those things because it really resonates with me what you're saying. And I'm very thankful that you. Two ladies are doing some wonderful work. Like you mentioned, and we'll talk a little bit about that as far as the, the round table discussions and so on.

But what I want to do now is I want to kind of take this back in time a little bit, because, uh, you know, a lot of the guests that I do have, I want to know what their initial thoughts were. So I want to go back to November of 2022 and I'll start with Anna first. So November, 2022. Chad GPT being released, what was your initial thought, uh, you know, as that happened?

[00:18:33] Anna: So I think I went through all of the feelings that we've talked about, you know, I read a lot about what's, you know, what new technology is out there. And I've always been interested in bringing technology to the classroom. Um, and then suddenly thinking this is entirely different. This is something entirely different.

We're talking about, you know, global, enormous. change and then immediately feeling excited about this is, this is where we can actually do something incredible because if we don't, there's a risk there. So I think Lucy and I immediately jumped into what can we do here? What does this mean for our industry as well as other industries?

But what does this mean for education? Um, and what you were saying about having the fun and making sure that it's, you know, it's, bringing fun back into learning. And I would add the extra element of bringing the ultimate purpose back. You know, I always, always begin with why and why, why, why are we even schooling?

You know, why do we even think that we should have an education system and why should it look the way that it does? And when Gen AI, Gen AI came along, I was like, This is the perfect time to say, okay, so, you know, what are we doing as humans in our world? Really on a big thinking, big scale, what are we doing?

Why are we creating generative eye? How is this going to benefit us? What are the risks involved? And so when I started to really think about, okay, the wonderful things that this can do for us as humanity, I was also very, very aware of the risks of, Not keeping the human in the loop in the education space and making really, really clear that I enhances human development and this is where we've come from all those, you know, from November 2022 to now is generative.

I can actually make you lazier and it can make you less able to function. when you don't have it in your hands. So, you know, what do we need to be doing? What are the systems that need to be in place to make sure that this helps expand your, your human cognitive critical thinking abilities? So I think that when, as soon as it came out, I was like, Oh, oh my goodness, right.

Let me talk to everybody who I can think of and see what they think this is about and what we should be doing with it. And I don't. You know, believe that I can guide how this is going. This is a huge machine and it's moving faster than any of us can keep up with. But what we can do is jump into the lives of the teachers that we can have contact with and help them along.

You know, we're doing the reading, we're doing the research. We're very lucky to be working with um, a school under, uh, we work as AI educators with a school in the U. S. And. We haven't even, we haven't even started talking about generative AI in any real depth because what we want to do is first of all see that there's solid pedagogy behind education systems so that when we talk about AI, it's used in the right way.

That was a long answer to a short question. No,

[00:21:51] Fonz: no, no, no. But it's great because I'm glad that you made those connections and it's great. Like you mentioned, you know, from the very beginning and to where it's at now. And one thing that I did want to, um, just kind of reiterate was when you mentioned, you know, in, in sharing this and working with educators is really, you're not going in deep right away.

Like you said, your, your purpose is let's make sure we work on the pedagogy first, and then how can this additional component enhance that? Because many times, you know, if the way, as we know, if the pedagogy is not there and then you add a piece of tech to it. Well, that's not going to work and it can even hurt and be detrimental to the learning process.

So I love that you are being very cautious still, and you are an advocate for, you know, not only pedagogy, but you're an advocate for the use of generative AI and you're taking that one step at a time. And I think, like I said, you know, and you mentioned earlier, we will have those. Early adopters. And I want to give a big shout out also to Renee Dawson, who is here that I'll never forget.

She mentioned, you're always going to have your speedboats, your tugboats and your anchors. So your speedboats are, speedboats are your early adopters. They're just going to take off with it. Then you have your tugboats that are kind of in the middle and are still a little hesitant, but then they're the ones that'll help.

You know, pull on your anchors and kind of help them through the process too, as well. So, I really love your answer there. Now, Lucy, how about yourself? What was your initial impression November 20, or November of 2022 and, you know, coming, I guess, making that connection like Ana did for yourself?

[00:23:32] Lucy: Yeah. Uh, well, and then I have a lot of similarities, but I would say that she's definitely the one that connects things to the why.

And I'm the one that, uh, really focuses on the how. So in order to get to the how, and this has been my whole life, I'm just somebody that dives in. So I was like, what is this thing? Let me just play with it. You know, and I got in and played with it. And I think that. You know, as far as the how goes, I think that this is huge in education in general, because, you know, it's all about what you said before, where there's people that have a lot of feelings about this new technology.

And so one of the things that we really focus on is the human side. You know, connecting it to the why, but also like, let me accompany you through this because it is scary. I remember when my mom, I told you all, she was an educator. Um, she taught high school English forever. And I remember when she had to start going from her grade book to putting her grades on a computer and that freaked her out.

You know, she was, she was not the early adapter in that situation. Let me just tell you, but she was a tugboat. You know, she was like, let me. Talk to who can help me with this and let's get it done. And so I grew up listening to her and all of her friends and my, my aunts and uncles talking about the changes that came in through education.

So I get it. I get the fear. I get the discomfort. I get the, you know, I'm five years away from retiring. Why do I need to deal with this? But I think that there's, um, this opportunity out there. And the opportunity is to make it really real. And it doesn't mean that teachers have to bring AI into the classroom.

Like you mentioned with all of the privacy issues and concerns out there. If you're not somebody that's ready to take that on, you don't have to have AI in your classroom. You can use it for yourself. You can be aware of it. So you can recognize when your students are using it, because if you're still in that factory model.

And your students are now using AI to do all of your assignments. The little bit of learning that may have been happening five years ago in that situation, it's gone. There's no learning happening in that situation. And you know, the, everybody's just checking, checking boxes at that point. So yeah, to answer your question, what did I do?

And November of 2022, I just started playing around. There

[00:25:57] Fonz: you go. And you know what, I think you and I are very similar in that. Like where I, I just dive in head first and then I'll figure out, you know, why and who and what, and all this stuff. So that's the way that I learned myself, but I love it, you know, and this is great that you two have that fine balance, you know, like you mentioned where it's the why and the how and so on.

So that's wonderful. And that's great. One thing that I did want to, um, just kind of touch base on and that you And it kind of is very reminiscent to a little story that I have in the sense of how technology can help improve not necessarily, not always just the quality of the teaching, but the quality of work for the teacher as far as helping them be more efficient and do and, of course, making the work a lot easier.

Yeah, just the efficiency of it. And this is what I want to touch on. So when I first got into this current role that I'm in, in the district, we were just transitioning to Google workspace. And so what we did is our lesson plan templates are created on a Google sheet. So I created that Google sheet and like you mentioned.

That fear of teachers where they, there was a system that was used to before, and now you're switching to another system. We have a teacher in our district. Um, she is amazing. She is a great friend. And I think she's already well into like, I think like either her 39th year or going into her 40th year of teaching.

And. And I recall that when I first got this role and we switched to that template, you know, we had our massive district training and so on. Well, she came up to me and I was very intimidated because she is very well known in our district. She is a phenomenal teacher. She comes up to me and she says, I.

I'm not going to do this. He goes, no one has ever, ever taught me anything and this is hard and I don't like it, I'm not going to change. And so on. Well, as you know, you know, you have to kind of start transitioning and obviously now they're asking for the lesson plans in these sorts of templates. So. She called me and she's like, can you come and help?

And I absolutely went over there and I said, if I can win her over, that will help me win the rest of the teachers over within not only that department, but with that school. So I went. And I sat down with her patiently. I answered all of her questions. And yes, she was frustrated. Yes, she was just like, Oh, like, like, you know, I'm so close to retiring.

Um, um, you know, I could just quit as far as because she's close to that retirement age. But when she learned that, and she learned the template, she started using and feeling more comfortable with Google Workspace. And later on, I bumped into her and she says, you know what, Mr. Mendoza, she goes, no one has ever taught me anything, you know, and I guess kind of, I don't know if that was kind of like that stubborn, you know, sort of a little bit kind of way, but you were able to teach me how to do this and this and this and this is what she said, she goes.

I feel that I can be teaching for at least another 5 to 6 years again, because of getting out of that comfort zone. But like you said, like, the work that you guys are doing really reminds me of this where you're working with those teachers that this can help them. Extend their They're teaching, you know, their livelihood.

And as we know, we do have a teacher shortage. Well, the teachers are there, but you know, it's, it's the, the, the way that the campuses environments, that's a whole other conversation, but to have and keep these wonderful teachers that are already there and to help them enhance their workload in a way that they feel like, okay, I think I can do this for another two, three years, which can help, As we build up other educators, you know, to kind of start filling in those spots and things of that sort.

I think that's great. So I just wanted to add that, Lucy, because you really reminded me of that. And I think that that's where one thing that we can see and something that possibly this new technology and the conversations being had can help where these teachers feel a little bit of a relief and say, Hey, you know what, if we continue with this, I can do another three years.

I can do another four years and it's great because we're still keeping those great teachers that have the solid pedagogy and, you know, now they're really feeling more comfortable with the tech and then that transfers over to the students as well as them, allowing them to enhance the learning through whatever, you know, technology, or even just with a platform, whatever it is.

They feel a little bit more comfortable and that's great. So I just really wanted to share that because I love it.

[00:30:40] Lucy: I had to tell you that my mom would purposefully befriend the younger teachers that were coming in. And she'd say, you know, let me help them with things like, uh, you know, how to organize their classes or how to organize their notes and all of these, but let them help me so we can ask each other in a really natural way.

So, you know, it's a simple way where. Where it goes back hundreds of years of how to learn and how to grow. Exactly.

[00:31:07] Fonz: Exactly. I love that. All right, ladies. Well, I want to talk a little bit too, you know, as you know, we follow each other on LinkedIn and I mean, I love it. It's a great space for learning. It's a great space to really.

Learn from, you know, comment on and see and hear different perspectives. But I want to talk specifically about your round table discussions that I know we talked a little bit about. So I want to know, I'll start here, uh, with Anna. Anna, tell me a little bit about what was the catalyst to start these, uh, round table discussions?

How did that come about?

[00:31:40] Anna: Gosh, I mean, you know, we're so lucky to be working with lots of teachers. And, and just hearing this confusion, this general confusion of, but how, when, why, what, you know, where it, there was just so many questions and Lucy and I, we were super nerds about this. We read all about it and obviously in this tool, you've seen that and what you can do and what did you get?

And so we thought, look, if we're, if we're feel like that, we have something in which we can. Provide at least a space and hold that space for people to jump in and share their perspectives. That's where it started. It was literally just a support platform because we've talked about this a lot. I think that teaching has become detached from learning.

And I think that you're just talking about this teacher who said. I'm five years away. I don't need to learn how to use this tool, but we're all we only exist as teachers and I really do prefer to use the term learning facilitators of a teacher that to me is the word. It's important for me to use learning facilitator because if you're just teaching, then how on earth do you know that?

Your students are learning. It's a whole ecosystem. And we thought in this AI revolution with such a huge impact on education, let's just have a space where we all share our ideas. Where we all bring in, what did you do this week? What did you try? How did it work out for you? Was it just faster or was it better than faster too?

Were you able to reduce your stress as, as much? the role of a teacher. How were you able to do that? So we, we just decided to provide and hold that space. Um, it's transforming. We'd get lots and lots of people are now coming from all over the world with, you know, I have this amazing tool that, you know, I think can solve a problem and people coming in and say, I have this huge problem.

Do you have a tool? Um, so yeah, every month we're doing them also now in Spanish, which is It's fantastic that you were hopefully reaching a whole new audience who just started, I think, two months ago, we started doing in Spanish too, but the problems and concerns are the same across the globe. We have a community in Kenya who are very, very concerned about, hey, we're missing out here.

Definitely being left behind, but we also have communities in the US who are saying, Hey, we're also being left behind. You know, we're not, we're not getting the same as California. You know, we don't have the same budget coming into our schools. So I think it's just a general global concern about how do we keep up.

And what can we do with the little that we have? And that's our whole reason for existing is just just come in. Let's talk about it. And Lucy and I can obviously guide with things that we believe are helpful or point you in the direction of people that we think can help you. So it's an evolving entity.

It's really interesting.

[00:34:37] Lucy: I would also add that we're, we're seeing that there's a lot of those early adapters don't feel like they're getting the support at their school. And also they don't have the time as we talked about how busy teachers are, there's never enough time when you're in the classroom and your students need you.

You don't have enough time to be exploring what might be helpful. And so Anna and I started doing that and realizing that we're, we're We're solving a pain point for people that don't have enough time to do all the exploration that they needed. So there's one hour a month where you can come in, talk about your challenges, hear what other, how other people have solved for that.

And whenever we see, Oh, this is a big topic that, that hasn't been solved for, then we start looking and exploring our, the solutions and the things that we're reading, you know, with that in mind. So it's, it's been exciting because things that I thought were. Maybe a little bit easier or more common. You know, you get so involved in what you're involved in.

It could be anything, you know, music or art. And you just start to assume that the whole world knows about that. Yeah. So it was wild here in Mexico. I was talking to professionals, uh, uh, just a lawyer, who's a member of my family, my husband's family here. And I remember just talking to her about Chachi Bouti and she's like, what's that?

And that was last month. And I was. Really surprised because I'm still in this world. I was like, okay, so, you know, about perplexity, you know, and then I was like, okay, take a few steps back. And I think that that's what we need to remember, you know, when we're in the classroom, when we're doing PD, that we need to be aware that not all of our students, nor all of our teachers, nor all of our friends.

have experienced and have the same background knowledge that we do.

[00:36:24] Fonz: No, and I love that, you know, and, and having these conversations are very valuable as you mentioned, you know, communities and really getting to see how they feel. Because one thing that you mentioned, um, Anna was obviously the funding process.

I know for myself working in a small school district too, as well, I'm always very concerned that, you know, even this year, We almost got priced out out of, uh, a particular platform that we used and it's a platform that we've been using for years and we understand, you know, the ed tech space, you know, companies, it's, it's for profit.

And I know that usually it's about 6 to 7 percent per year that there's an increase and we understand that, but now we're getting to that point where. Yikes, you know, we're really squeezing pennies here and everything and trying to make things happen and really, I mean, it's borderline. We're begging like, can you like help us and adjust this?

And it's very, it's very scary. But at the same time, I feel like, like, I don't know. It's like, I feel vulnerable in that sense, like at any given time. This could be pulled from the teacher's rugs or pulled from the teachers altogether, like from their, from their, their set of tools that they use. And then what are they going to do?

Obviously it's a, well, they can adapt, they can adjust, they could do this. We understand those things, but when they base a lot of their curriculum and they already have those lessons. built in that, you know, get, they get the, the, the students interacting with the lessons and so on. That can be very scary and also very just disheartening.

And so I understand that point too, where now with the popularity of a lot of platforms, the price. It goes up because now it's like, Hey, it's supply and demand, but can we do something or start having those conversations of trying to see how we can work with smaller school districts? Because, you know, in the end here in Texas, since I live right along the border, 4 hours north of me, San Antonio, Texas or Austin.

They're going to be okay. A lot of school districts there because there's a lot of money that comes in, but then for the smaller school district. So I see that concern. I would imagine because I'm not very familiar with the education space in Mexico, but I would imagine that budget there too, is something that is looked at very, very much too.

Different worlds.

[00:38:45] Anna: It's it's a different universe. Yeah, exactly. You know, we're, we're kind of concerned about how little is being invested in professional development because this is the moment in time where we need professional development. The world has changed. Our industry needs to change. Therefore, we need to invest in our teachers.

We need to invest in our curriculum. We need to invest in every single element of our education system. But there isn't the money being pumped in. Because I think there's still not yet the understanding of the impact yet on this and we're not saying, well, you have to swipe away everything you've ever done and do it again.

No, we can all understand that we can make small changes that make big impact. We can start using AI in a really, really, small way that's manageable, bite sized, that's going to make huge difference for your students. But if we're not investing in the PD and helping the teachers, then this is something extra outside of their working day.

And you know, as teachers, we take home so much work every day. We're grading, you know, we can, we can do so much to help these teachers and these students. Eventually, our end goal is helping these students. But if you have overwhelmed teachers who are under Um, um, I'm thinking in Spanish prepared, I mean, yeah, then, then we have resistance.

And then when you have resistance. It's really difficult. So I, I, you know, Lucy and I have opened up this round table here and it's completely free. You know, we're not charging anything. We're just saying, use it as a space to meet other people, to talk to other people. You know, the networking opportunities are amazing.

Um, who do you need to talk to you around you? Who's at the same stage as you, who's ahead of you in the game? Um, so that we can just take away a little bit of that. While we're waiting for people to understand that they need to start investing in really good professional development across the board. I think that's something that will eventually need to happen.

[00:40:52] Lucy: I want to say so many things about this. Like, it's hard to know where to start. So first of all, like, um, going back to one of your earlier questions, equity. It was one of the other big reasons that we wanted to have this conversation. So with the bias that's involved, uh, and even inherent in all systems that have to do with humans, we want to include as many different voices as possible, which is one of the reasons why it's a free space.

So come, it doesn't matter your background. Um, and. You know, teachers want to invest so much in materials. And so it's hard to pay for everything that we want. Uh, but here in Mexico, you're exactly right. It's a different world when it comes to finances. And I, I think it even goes back before that there's so much creativity.

I think Mexicans are the most creative humans on earth that I've gotten the opportunity to spend a lot of time with. So there might be somebody else out there more creative, but I haven't met them yet as a people. But. So we can use the free things we can use all of that. I love technology if we can afford it.

Yes. But I would say that the conversation even goes before that. So the given is that I love technology, but coming back, I would say that. The real problems are things, and I, and I really resonate that with what you said about the teacher shortage. My sister was a Texas teacher who left the classroom because she was working 60, 70, 80 hour weeks, like, felt that it was, I don't want to speak for her, but felt that it was a little bit thankless.

And we won't get into all of those things that all of us already know that are issues for teachers. Um, but, Here, I think that all those concerns like chronic absenteeism, teacher shortages, all of this, I think it all stems from the same problem. The root cause is the same. And I truly believe that bringing in critical thinking and getting the students, you said it earlier, Like letting the students do stuff.

We want to do stuff. We don't want to just sit there, listen to listening to somebody. And what I've seen is that once we start doing stuff, those aha or golden moments of teaching start happening with a frequency that is just exponential in comparison to what we, we see, you know, when I first started teaching, I'd have one or two of those a year.

By the time that I was leaving the classroom and started to work with teachers, I was no, no kidding. This sounds ridiculous, but I was having. You know, three or four of those in an hour session, and I was like, holy moly, there is another way to do this. So it doesn't matter if there's teachers out there, just like wondering where to start.

It doesn't matter where you start, use what you have, and then try something, try anything. And just, you know, purposefully let your kids do stuff. You do stuff with them, get excited about your teaching again, because. You know, the, the possibilities are endless. And when we, when we, when we give kids the chance to do stuff, they blow our minds.

[00:43:53] Fonz: Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. You know, it goes back to that. Just play, have some fun, you know? And, and one thing that I did want to add is it just seems like there's been a kind of a transition and maybe, and I don't know if you've noticed it, but like a kind of after COVID, it just seems like a lot of the, You know, and teachers, you know, have turned more into the subject matter experts, which is great that they do know the subject matter, but we lost that opportunity, like you mentioned for that play to have discussion, have discourse in the class, being able to see a child's or a student's learning process because we're just focused on that end product.

So the nighty is a nighty. I don't care how they got there, but that's a 90, but isn't it great for you to be able to have an opportunity to see the thought process of the student on how they got to that 90 and maybe how as a, as a learning engineer, you know, the teachers can be learning engineers engineer that learning experience.

To help that student really master that content and give them that authentic feedback and that authentic support and although it may seem like, oh, that sounds like a lot of work, Mr Mendoza, it's something that I used to do in my classroom, which is just project based learning, you know, you give them an option on how to submit something.

You know, in a different way, just as long as they follow the rubric, but you're able to either listen to them, explain their thought process. They can provide it for you in a presentation. They can provide it for you in a short clip. They can provide it for you through a graphic, but there's more than one way to assess that learning and that thinking.

And I think that that's where we're, we need to do, or kind of go back to and get back into that mode of, kind of. Kind of play and experiment. And like you mentioned, you know, if there's a way that the technology can help enhance that pedagogy by all means, but, you know, finding that fine balance of sometimes how about we try to allow the students to lead with the tech and say, you know what, this, this app doesn't really want to work for me, or it doesn't work for me that much, but this way.

I like more this way to present my learning to you. And sometimes I can be very beneficial in allowing the students that choice to as well, because I know for myself as a, as an educator, like I go to a conference and I get really excited and I bring up, bring home all the apps and I want to do all 10 all at one time with my teacher, well, I can't like, I need to slowly, just a slow, gradual release and then have them, Hey, here's a choice of what you have.

Do what you're comfortable with and let's see how we can tie this lesson with this app one, app two or app three. And if that works for teachers that, you know, we should allow our students also to have them that give them that option and say, Hey, here's what I need. But here are these three apps that you can use.

Use the one you feel most comfortable with as long as it meets this rubric. We're good. And so, yeah, it's just going back to that play and I love that, you know, but also, you know, hitting back on that component of professional development. And I know for the teachers in Mexico, not only in Mexico, but here.

So I think a lot of teachers are really craving that solid professional development that is not the compliance professional development, but actual, like the art of teaching and the pedagogy aspect and how to present and enhance things differently. That I think a lot of teachers are hungry for that too.

[00:47:16] Anna: Oh, let me just, you know, to add to that, this is the joy that Lucy and I get from our work day to day with one of the schools that we're working with as AI educators, is it's not just about technology, it's not just about apps, it's about let's change the way that we teach, I would rather say facilitate learning, because you will inevitably, and we see this Every single day.

The effect of what we're doing is you don't need to be the carrier of all knowledge. You don't need to be responsible for every person in the room. You're going to involve the student in their learning and you're going to give the student the ownership of their learning, handing it over to the student.

That radically changes what you're expected to do in a classroom when you are handing over ownership to a student. So not only reduces part of that stress and you know, I am the one who carries all. responsibility here, but it's infinitely more enjoyable to watch the students become the protagonists in the classroom, the protagonists of their learning, and the outcomes are just so much more important when you see a student understanding what they're doing, understanding why, I always go to the why, understanding why they're doing it, understanding why they're going to turn up today.

Because it's about me. I've been given 18 years to invest in myself. I've been given 18 years where I don't have to go out and work, where I can just become this incredible human being. And all these people around me are there to facilitate that. If we go into learning with that mentality. And teachers are this.

I'm not here to do what my administrators told me to do or what it says in the curriculum here to facilitate those students to grow into incredible human beings who can go out into the world and make a huge impact, you know, and create a better world for all of us. Then I think that's what education is about.

And we have ways of doing that. We have systems of doing that. This pedagogy, Lucy and I are developing an education model that we're testing every single day with amazing results. That is, it's all based on who are we, what are we doing here? How do we want to do it? What do I need emotionally, socially, you know, intellectually to be.

A human that's going to thrive in this world and make this world a beautiful place to exist in. And I don't think that current education systems always allow that to happen. And it's not always just about technology. It's about really thinking, rethinking education from scratch. And then allowing technology to make that so much easier to achieve.

It's so much easier to achieve when we think about what AI can do for us.

[00:50:03] Lucy: Wow, that I completely agree and I'm so glad that you touched on that and I think that what it comes down to for me is because I am a big nerd and I love learning, but I didn't know I liked learning until I got out of school and I am watching students and educators.

Suffer, not all of, not all of the students, not all of the educators, but I see them suffering through those 18 years, you know, living for the weekend, desperate for the summers. And I don't think it has to be that way. I think that when we connect with the humans that are with us and we get excited and curious about what we're discovering together, when we put ourselves Alongside the students and say, um, you know, I'm going to discover something as well.

I think that that's when the magic can happen. And so I'm really optimistic about this. I get that it's scary. I would just say, you know, if you're somebody again, that doesn't know where to start, just, or, you know, take a small risk. You know, if your admin isn't so excited about whatever you're thinking about, take a tiny risk for yourself and for your students, because it may not seem like that risk is.

Going to be the catalyst for this impact of this global impact, but you'd never know. And I think that we've got the opportunity right in front of us to really change the way that education is globally for the better. And I say, let's do this.

[00:51:29] Fonz: Oh, I love that. I love that. That's really inspiring because it's all about risk taking and it really, really resonates with me.

with me because I was that teacher that just took risks like, yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and do this. I'm going to try this and I'm going to do that. And, you know, just the outcome of it was great, but it all starts with that risk and, and, and the reward, you know, that you see later on is wonderful.

And, you know, it's wonderful. And I agree with you, you know, as teachers, just, That small little bit of risk can go a long way and can pay off dividends for that, for our student learning experiences. And also just as a teacher, just for even just that personal growth, to be able to kind of think outside the box and try something different.

And then that takes you to the next level. So I absolutely love it. So, like I said, you know, this, this conversation has definitely been very inspiring to me. And I hope for all our listeners that are out there, that are going to be catching this episode, hopefully to it. It just inspires you to just really see that.

Yes. The talk is around gen AI, but if you notice today, we did mention it, but we're focused more on just as a catalyst to how can we do education better, you know, with, you know, tech being part of it, but how can we just, you know, see things differently within our education space to help improve not only ourselves as learning engineers.

teachers, educators, whatever you'd like to call yourself in that personal growth, but also in that professional development and also just to the benefit of our, of our students. So ladies, like this has been just amazing. And I mean, if these round table talks are just anything like this, uh, definitely please make sure that you join those conversations for sure.

And I know I will definitely link all that information there in the show notes too, as well for all our audience members. But before we start wrapping up, I definitely want to hit up the last three questions that I always love to share with all my guests. So ladies, I hope that you are ready and I'm going to start with Lucy first.

So Lucy, so we know that every superhero. Has a weakness or a pain point. And we know for Superman, it was really that kryptonite that kind of weakened him and kind of made them lose that superpower aspect that he had. So I want to ask you, Lucy, in the current state of education, what would you say is your current.

Kryptonite. Only one. . Yeah. We'll keep it to one for now. The main one. .

[00:53:56] Lucy: I, I would say that the biggest kryptonite is, um, those anchors and just how the, you know, the people that aren't, are really uncomfortable and then not having enough time or enough opportunity to go in and do what you did and take the time, you know, because the human connection is at the key.

Is the key to all of this. So if I'm given the time to work one on one with a teacher that is so uncomfortable or administrator, that's so uncomfortable with change and taking risk, I firmly believe that if I'm given the time, we can work on it together and get there to a place where we're, we're ready to take steps.

But I think that you had an education. There's never enough time. That's my kryptonite.

[00:54:44] Fonz: There you go. Thank you so much. Anna, how about yourself?

[00:54:47] Anna: Sure. He stole my answer. No. Well, it really is the same answer. But I think, yeah, it's the lack of investment in teachers giving them, you know, we need the funding to give them the space and the time to understand what this is about to understand the impact of AI on education.

That that is the kryptonite for me at the moment. If we don't invest. We don't take some things off the plate. You know, we work in change management processes. We have to remove things from the plate. We have to remove obstacles in order to Move forward. I feel that we're not quite there yet. I think soon districts and governments around the world will realize, oh, we really need to do something about this.

Otherwise, our system is actually not serving its purpose and allowing students to learn. I think it will happen. So it's only a temporary kryptonite.

[00:55:42] Fonz: Thank you. Great answers, ladies. I appreciate it. And, uh, this next one, we'll start with you. So if, uh, what, or actually I would ask, uh, what is a book that you feel that everyone should read?

[00:55:55] Anna: Well, in the context of this conversation, I would say Cointelligence by Ethan Mollick. Although any book becomes obsolete very quickly because things change, but he is somebody that resonates a lot with me in terms of, and what Lucy's been saying, is he said, you just get in and play with it. You just, and he says, you need 10 hours.

Right. All you need is 10 hours to know. Ah, okay. Right. I can kind of see where this might be going. Um, yeah, his book is amazing. It really is a great foundation for anybody who's worrying this, about what this is going to be, you know, Artificial versus human intelligence. This is a great book, Co Intelligence by Ethan Mollick.

[00:56:37] Fonz: Excellent. Thank you. Great recommendation. How about you, Anna? Uh, Lucy, Lucy. Sorry. You're fine. You're

[00:56:43] Lucy: fine. Um, okay. So I know that when you see me, you just see this like really cool chava, super cheetah, and you might not look at me and see like, Oh, she's a book nerd. Um, I am the biggest book nerd right after my mom.

Okay. So it's hard. This is the hardest question that I ever have to answer your favorite book, right? Cause it's usually the one I'm reading. Um, and so this one I've been reading forever because I keep rereading it. Uh, Ron Nash has 19 books and it's all about, this one is choreographing continuous improvement in the K 12 classrooms.

It's working the room and it's. So good. I have to use a bunch of different highlighters because otherwise I just highlight the entire book. Um, but it's all about like, how, how are you going to get there? Get into it with your students. Get on the ground. You don't have to be, you know, like, I'm sorry to go off on this, but I have to, you know, I asked AI to make me a picture.

Of, you know, an image of a teacher who's, you know, this facilitating or this learning engineer, you know, and I wanted them to be a part of the conversation, a part of it down there. A, I could not create it. It kept putting the teacher in the front of the room, just like you were saying at the beginning, you know, and it's impossible.

So you want to know how to do it? You want to know the first steps, the second steps, the third steps, check out Ron Nash's books. They're amazing.

[00:58:07] Fonz: Love it. Thank you so much. I'm really gonna, I'm really hyped up about those. So I'll definitely put the links in the show notes too, as well for all our audience members.

All right. And the last question, we'll go ahead and start with Lucy. Now, the last question for you is if you can try out a job for a day to see if you like it, what job would that be?

[00:58:26] Lucy: Well, I've had a beautiful opportunity to try out lots of jobs. So, uh, you know, one that I haven't done is I would love to be a scuba diving instructor.

So. You know, uh, you know, it's still teaching, can't get away from it, but definitely scuba diving instructor. And I do that probably around Cancun, Tulum, in the Sur de Mexico, so that I can continue to be in the Caribbean and just enjoy that beautiful space.

[00:58:51] Fonz: Oh, love it. That is great. All right. How about yourself, Anna?

[00:58:56] Anna: I think mine's not as fun as Lucy's, but that sometimes happens. Um, I would be, I wanted to be a marine biologist and part of the reason that I ended up loving. Education was because I care so much about the ecosystem in which we In exist, I guess. So I was teaching Shakespeare, but actually I was teaching students about, you know, science with the ecosystem.

I think I would be, I'd love to be a marine biologist to understand how can we help really to keep this super delicate system safe. That's what I would want to do.

[00:59:30] Fonz: Excellent. Well, great answers, ladies. I really appreciate it. And just again, this conversation definitely filled my bucket today. I really appreciate just the way that we were able to just, you know, bring our ideas together and just.

Bring in a great conversation into our education space for our educators to listen to, to hopefully feel inspired and understand that they're not alone in all of this and that there are, uh, you know, some amazing women such as yourselves that are doing something about it and having these crucial conversations, you know, and, and providing a forum for people to amplify their voice, voice their concerns, voice their wins, voice their ideas.

And I think that that's what we need more of and just. Thank you for being a guest here on the show and thank you for giving me the opportunity also to amplify the work that you're doing and just your voices too. Because, uh, like I said, I am a long time follower of you guys on LinkedIn and it's just great to kind of meet here virtually, you know, and have just this great conversation that's going to be beneficial for all.

So thank you. I really appreciate that. And for all of our audience members that are catching this episode, Please make sure that you visit our website at myedtech. life, myedtech. life, where you can check out this amazing episode and the other 290 wonderful episodes with educators, creators, professionals, and just passionate individuals that you will find some knowledge nuggets and that you can sprinkle them onto what you are already doing great.

So thank you as always for all of your support and my friends until next time, don't forget, stay techie.