Episode 316: Ken Patterson

Episode 316 Why Transparency Matters Now More Than Ever with Ken Patterson

Fonz: Hello everybody, and thank you for my bad. Here we go.

Fonz: Hello everybody, and welcome to another great episode of My EdTech Life. Thank you so much for joining us on this wonderful day, and as always, wherever it is that you're joining us from around the world, thank you for all of your support. We appreciate all the likes to shares the follows, and if you know, you know that you've seen that we hit a hundred thousand downloads already.

Fonz: So thank you all as always, from the bottom of my heart. To all our sponsors. Thank you for your support as well. So big shout out to [00:01:00] edu aid to Yellow Dig to book creator and many more. Thank you all for believing in our mission and today I'm excited as always to bring you an amazing conversation.

Fonz: So today I would love to welcome to the show Mr. Ken Patterson. Ken, how are you doing this evening?

Ken: I am wonderful man. I'm wonderful. Thank you for having me. Thanks for what you do. Really thank you for what you do.

Fonz: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it, Ken, and I'm just really excited to get to talk to you and just to hear a little bit more about the work that you are, have you, you have been doing, I should say, because I know I've been following you on LinkedIn for a while now.

Fonz: Over the past, you know, kind of year and seeing you grow, seeing you do a lot of great things and then obviously, you know, bringing some great conversation into the LinkedIn space and. Really just getting a lot of people to kind of think about things differently, see things differently. So I'm really excited to have you here today, but before we get started with the meat of the conversation, for our audience members that may [00:02:00] not be familiar with your work yet, can you give us a little bit of a background story and what your context is within the education space?

Ken: Yes. So I'm gonna make it short, but I am, uh, essentially I, the most important thing about me is I'm crazy about kids, right? I'm absolutely crazy about kids. Um, just because I think as long as they are here, we have hope, right? And so I'm relentlessly passionate about them. Um, my, my email signature when I was, uh, in education was always unreasonably committed to kids because I think we all should be.

Ken: And so that's my framework. Um, the last position I held in education was principal. So I was, I started off as a music teacher and then like I. You know, I was living life and enjoying kids, right? Having fun with kids. Um, and then it's kind of like I was called up like, you know, you would run into some great administrators who said, man, you know, you, you gotta do more.

Ken: You gotta do more. Um, and I was afraid of not being able to be around kids. I. Um, so I became a principal, [00:03:00] um, right around, like, that was the highest I was gonna go. Like, I needed to see kids every day, so I became a principal. I really, I knew I wasn't gonna higher than that, but, um, what happened was I got promoted, uh, from the classroom to assistant principal the year of Covid.

Ken: I. Um, so my promotion was online. I interviewed, uh, in my pajamas. Um, and then the next year when we opened back up I fell in love. Um, and that passion in that district. I was in a very large district, um, in Maryland. And that passion, they, I. Promoted me very quickly. So I was an essentially an assistant principal for a year.

Ken: Um, and so I became a principal and principal late. Um, because, you know, some things happened, it didn't happen there. So I got the gig. So it doesn't matter what happened, I got the gig, right? So I got the gig and my first year, uh, they were 18 empty. Classrooms out of 30 classrooms that had 18 empty classrooms.

Ken: And I don't know about if you've been in education, right? But it is like a shortage. So I had to grab teachers off of, um, uh, Facebook basically is really where I got like a teaching force from. [00:04:00] Um, but that little ragtag group, man, we, that little gritty group man, I just said, listen, just come show up every day for kids.

Ken: We'll make it happen. Chat GPT came out that year and like. I was like, this is it. This is it. Like for principal, data analysis and speed is really what it's about. So, um, I didn't use it. Long story short, um, the end of that year, we got, uh, second out of the entire district of 125 schools, first year principal, 18 out of 30 teachers, had two of 'em worked at Panera before I hired him.

Ken: Like we should not have had any success, but, um, the AI kind of kicked in and I thought I said this is. We had found the golden spoon, like, you know, so, um, I was passionate about it. And then I just think that education wasn't ready at the time. 'cause I'm, you can't tell I'm passionate. Okay?

Ken: If you can't tell I'm passionate. I don't know that the system was ready at the time for someone who was genuinely passionate and genuinely, uh, in love with kids and genuinely passionate about, um, this new technology. And so, um, as it stood, you know. Uh, [00:05:00] it, the system. I think, honestly, I think they do their best.

Ken: But you know, when you have this type of growth, um, it was problematic. And so I became a consultant. I became a consultant. Reluctantly, like I was not trying to consult, but, um, so I was trying to just tell people, Hey man, like this thing is it man, this thing is it, um.

Ken: And that's how, how I got started. And so I'm here man, just really, I like what you do. It's funny that you mentioned EDU aid, man. 'cause Thomas is the one that told me about you. I don't know if, I don't know if I ever told you that, but Thomas said, man, like, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta see my EdTech life.

Ken: Um, and you were the first podcast I listened to, like when I was in my, like, what does a, what does AI in school? So, um, that's me. That's me. That is, that's positive. So I started, lemme say this part, I'm sorry. I started Innovate by accident. That's funny. I went to a conference and spoke to a, a, um, it was a national conference and I just was speaking about passion for education, right?

Ken: And like, people were like, Hey, you know, come talk to me. And I was like, oh crap, I gotta have a business. So, like that, that's, that's why I say consultant. This kind of came in reverse, if that makes sense. [00:06:00]

Fonz: No, that's perfect. And that, that's such a great story, you know, because again, you know, really we can definitely tell how passionate you are and I really love that and I wish we could definitely have.

Fonz: More of that and just that passion that you bring. If we could just take that little piece of that and just put it out everywhere in the education space, enthusia. Yeah, it's, it's all about the kids

Ken: as teachers. The teachers. I love kids. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Fonz: Yeah, so again, you know, hearing your story and then just that success that you had, can you tell us a little bit about that?

Fonz: I know you didn't go into much detail, but I know that I. Like you mentioned the system maybe wasn't ready for that type of success. What were the reactions when you took this school where you said you had 18 empty classrooms, you brought, you assembled a team, essentially just asking people to come in, I'll take care of you, we'll make sure that we help the students succeed because that is your goal in mind.

Fonz: What was that reaction from people around your district? [00:07:00]

Ken: So, um, I don't know that anybody expected. That level of success. And I'll be honest with you, I don't think anybody expected I was expecting it, but I was willing to try anything, right? Like I felt like if I'm in the position, particularly as someone who has had great experiences and has had challenge experiences in school, if I'm in the position to make some sort of a difference, um, I'm gonna do that.

Ken: And so I used it. And what happens, I started experiment with chat GPT really as a fir, as a first year principal, having only been assistant principal for one year. Understand. I'm like, I had to learn it. And so I said, well, let me get chat GBT to help me. I knew that it was, they were, when the internet first came, I mean, when AI first came out, they were advertising it as like a, uh, like, like optimization, you know, and all that.

Ken: So I said, well, I can optimize like my home businesses or something like that so I can learn principle. And then when I, it clicked, I was like, whoa, wait a minute, wait a minute, I can bring it here. And so. I started like just doing all the data analysis and my staff is on board. Like if you're a first year teacher and you have never [00:08:00] taught you like, and, and only thing I do is show up every day and you can do all my data work, all of my leaders, I had to use them and I was doing their work essentially because I was getting success and I was early reaching out to like other principals and other friends, and they were like, oh, oh.

Ken: At first it was really like, you don't touch that. Like, well, we don't know. We don't get in trouble. So I was like. What you mean? Like I'm, you know, like, let's go use it. So if you know about ai, it's a, it's use cases, right? Like, and it's actually technology in reverse. I, I literally needed like a fi a 50 year principle to just tell me some stuff, right?

Ken: Like, I could have, they could wipe the floor clean with me on the ai, but I'm here just like, so I had to borrow use cases from my own team. So like, all the leaders, the math leader, the reading leader, I'm just, I said I'm doing data analysis. They're like, are you, yes, I am. I'm, I'm learning ai, right?

Ken: So I would do the data analysis and we flipped it to where instead of them coming together in that collaborative planning and just doing data analysis, no. When they [00:09:00] came together in collaborative planning, the answers were already, the data was already analyzed. Now it's like, how do we apply this? And they were like, oh my gosh, this principle was so like.

Ken: So that developed and development dealt to where nobody was doing anything but being with kids. If it took you away from kids, give it to me is what I said. I had a secret weapon, and in that time it was the free chat, GBT. You had to prompt it, you had to give it a identity and all that. And so that, that did it.

Ken: And so, so to fast forward, um. We were, I'm a process guy, right? Like I knew that data and all that in the school systems. Like I don't, I'm a integrity and process guy. If you just show up every day, work hard and do right, do absolutely right by kids, everything else will take care of itself.

Ken: Um, and so it, it happened and I was sharing some stuff with other principals. 'cause you know, I'm like, Jesus, use us. Use us. Everybody was afraid. Everybody was afraid. So the initial reaction was, great job. Like I got emails from the State Department and like. Superintendent had like shouted me out and everything, but when I, it kept going, like, [00:10:00] I think people were like, wait a minute.

Ken: Like, this guy's excited. And he won't shut up about it. And he's just, 'cause I couldn't understand why people just wouldn't use it. Like, it's free. It's free. I will and then the custom GPTs came out, right? Like, I'm like, I will create you one. It's free. It's free. Everybody was like, no. So that was the next, that was a crisis for me because I think at that time I realized.

Ken: Education wasn't ready. And there was a lot that went bad, honestly. Um, that, I don't know. I don't blame anybody, but I think we are so accustomed to, I mean, it's a hundred year institution, right? Like we, we are not even aware of what we have been ingrained in and what we push out and what we do. It's just auto.

Ken: So a lot of it was that, but it was a brutal, like it was. You know, so I became a consultant, you know, and then it was weird because I'm trying to tell principals to use it. It's like he's selling free stuff. Like that's, I was, I was like, it's not free. It's chat. GBT, it's free. Well, if it's free, you're probably trying to get money on the other end.

Ken: That's just this, [00:11:00] we know about free samples. We go to, we go to Costcos and the, we know what a free sample is. You're trying to get rid, I, I'm not like, how do you sell ai? I did not. I did sell it. I just, I wanted you to have it. I you to, I wanted to see what. Honestly, okay. If I'm being honest, I wanted to see what somebody who had been a principal for longer could do with it.

Ken: Like I had run outta stuff to do. So I wanted just to see what other people could do with it so I could get more ideas. I wasn't thinking about money, so like, make money, make, I was like, no, no, no. So that was the crisis and then I said, well, let me charge a little bit. And then when I charged it was like.

Ken: Oh, he's trying to make money. We knew he was just trying to make money. Like no, so that's what happened. That's what happened. I'm sorry. Yeah, no,

Fonz: no worries. But you know, it's interesting, you know, just those type of reactions. And even now, 2022 to 2025, we still see that where there's still, you know, that.

Fonz: You know, still a, a pause in a lot of those things, but then there's also districts that are moving forward. Sometimes I, I feel that it's a mixed bag where it's, [00:12:00] the teachers are driving it, but the tech departments maybe don't even know that this is being used. And so it, it could, it's all over the place, many places, and I know that.

Fonz: There's a lot of people with that enthusiasm that are like, well, if you haven't been using it, you're missing out and you're hurting kids and you're doing this. And I was like, well, there's also the other side that's like, Hey, you know what? Like we, we just wanna be very cautious. We wanna make sure that what is being put out and what is being used.

Fonz: Is something that is gonna be beneficial and ethical. And of course you take all of those considerations and then you've got, like you said, the speedboats that are, no, no, no. Move fast break things. Don't worry about it. We'll take care of it. And I'm more kind of like in the middle and like I tell people on the show, you know, just being very, a very cautious advocate where sometimes I'll see the news and I'm like.

Fonz: All right. Like, yes, okay, this is gonna help us move forward. And then all of a sudden something happens and it's like, ugh. You know, let me kind of like, okay, let's, let's slow it down. And maybe it's just me over analyzing things, but that's why I love having these conversations because I get to amplify so many voices and so many experiences here, [00:13:00] including your own, which I think is something that is very attractive to have a.

Fonz: Principal or former administrator using this and showing the success that they add, but then also getting your perspective that when you go out there and you visit with administrators, people that were in the sa, in the same roles, doing very similar things and are not. You know that, that they're a little very cautious or maybe overly cautious in seeing what this might be able to do for them, like it did for you.

Fonz: So I wanna ask you now, from that moment on in 2022 to 2025, how are you feeling about. AI and what it is that you're seeing through, now that you're a consultant, in that consultant perspective, are there still a lot of people holding out and through your experience, what might be some of the main reasons that they're holding out?

Ken: So I'm gonna, I'm going to be, I'm going to shock you, right? Like, I'm gonna be honest, right? So you, it, so, so [00:14:00] it's in reverse. The people who are holding out and they're holding out because they don't understand it or don't. Really see what it is and all that. If they are genuinely doing that, they are in the perfect position.

Ken: And I mean, this is gonna be the wildest thing. Educators as a, in, as a industry, and not even industry education as, as all of us, right? We are the most beautiful humans, like the absolute most beautiful humans. We. Internally care about kids and want to protect them. So something, and I will tell you this, something on the, like some intuition, if you really do care about kids and you really are good at what you do, you, you did, you would not have jumped on.

Ken: Or if you did, it would've been reluctantly because it was presented wrong. And this is the issue. This is what I was afraid of. Right. I, the dirty, dark little secret, if I'm being honest with you, the year after I had all that success, it was total failure. Right. Let me be honest. Right? And [00:15:00] that's what made, drove my guilt, to be honest with you.

Ken: And that's what drove me like on this mad rush to make sure that everybody, because I felt like I had. I knew what the issue was and I didn't want it to, to progress. And here's what the issue was. The first year ai I saw it as an adult thing, right? I saw it as data analysis because I saw, I still see teachers as I.

Ken: The gifts of, of the world to education. So I use it to get everything outta the way of teachers. Teachers did not use ai. Like we had some AI stuff. They would come and like do lessons here and there. The older teachers were like, Hey, they actually the, the seasoned teachers, like the five or six I had like that were really seasoned, were actually using it to bring the younger teachers up to speed.

Ken: Like so it was an adult thing. Definitely the kids don't have it the next year. We did get a grant from the district and they gave us a bunch of money to use it, and so I gave it to the teachers to put inside the classrooms and they were doing all the wonderful things. They were up, you know, they were Fortnite in lessons and things like that, but my data went way in the [00:16:00] trash, and I was, I panicked.

Ken: I said, what is I. What is this? It dawned on me at the time, at least that AI is very abstract. It's math. It's basically math with words, right? So it's very abstract in how it presents things, but it does not pre and as pedagogy, as a teacher, our standards. Are aligned and they're like things that are connecting standards that we are not even aware of.

Ken: So if you are a new teacher, yes, you could punch in something and a lesson comes out in 17 seconds, but it may be missing a key that went to the standard two days before, or a standard back there. It's basically a hodgepodge. So the kids knew that one plus one was two, but because the common core and because some of this other stuff was more.

Ken: Uh, uh, uh, conceptual in learning. While AI is abstract, my kids knew one plus one was two, but when the test came out and they had to draw the relationship between numbers, they didn't know how to do it, and my teachers did know how to do it. So it was a mismatch with [00:17:00] kids, at least in elementary. I was like, crap.

Ken: And then I figured out, I know why it is, it is about. It's about collaboration and synthesis. So they were too young. They were still learning, like the kids have to learn the thing. The synthesis without AI for us comes in middle school, right? We're working in groups in middle school, high school. We're putting papers together by college.

Ken: We're doing research. That's the synthesis adds as you go up elementary. I was like, oh no. So that really was the danger and so I saw that. That's where. The entirety of K 12 started. So in the summertime I was like, no, I was crashing out. As the kids would say on Facebook and the principals groups like, Hey, you guys gotta use this.

Ken: No, no. I saw the teachers run into it and it to me, not that the teachers are kids, not at all, but it's like they're gonna do ed tech stuff with it. Like principals, please stop superintendents. I was yelling. I was screaming. Anybody would listen and everybody was silent. [00:18:00] But the teachers were running with, and I was like, no, no, no, no.

Ken: So that was the painful part for me in the summertime. Like, but what I had to realize is it was a really issue of control. Like, I can't control that. Right? Like I, I wanted to be one man that like. To have the answer, you know? But I, I couldn't control it, so I just tried it. So then I kept trying to get into systems, right.

Ken: Ate came and I'm helping systems without doing. But what was happening is, the other thing about ai, it has to land for all of us at the same time, and then we apply it differently. It's not, so if ATE was getting these, we were getting contracts, right? But it's like if I just go and work with your special education department.

Ken: Just use AI there, it's gonna offset, it's gonna throw everything off. Like it's, I'm actually hurting adoption. Like at some point it's gonna come back and hurt. And so I, so I had that crisis and, and what happened recently, which is great, is, is now a couple of school districts are like, Hey, we get it.

Ken: Let's go, let's do it. As a district, everybody does it [00:19:00] together. Now we apply it differently, but it, it makes teachers, humans again, right? Because now teachers, it's basically knowledge in reverse. They have everything they need. So the teachers have always been a gift. They've always been a gift. Now it's us getting out of their way.

Ken: It's the, what I did with it the first year, get out of the teacher's way, shut the door, let 'em do what they do, and we use AI to do all the data analysis and all that stuff like that. So that, that's, now I'm full circle because I see, I think it's picking up. I think it's picking up, I think people are getting it.

Ken: Ed tech is not out of the picture, it's just that ed tech, like teachers kind of move to aiding, right? We're aiding assisting more so than dominating. And I think that identity is what Ed tech has to take in order to really like, you know, be relevant in the new era, right? So we want teachers to really be autonomous and we really believe in teachers.

Ken: We've gotta let them be them. That, that, that's that for me. That's, I hope that helped a little bit. I know I went,

Fonz: yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Of course. Which kind of leads me [00:20:00] to, to my next question and um. Just to be open and honest. I, I follow you on LinkedIn and of course on LinkedIn. I, I did see a post, you know, that you posted up recently.

Fonz: I saw it yesterday and I gained a lot of traction and it really just highlights the concerns about EdTech platforms, just repackaging, I. You know, themselves, you know, and just really taking those chat GPT AI models, and again, talking about those wwrapper, uh, platforms and so on. So, I wanna ask you, you know, what are your thoughts on that?

Fonz: You know, right now we're talking, you know, how you used Chat GPT on its own. But as you know, you know, there are several platforms out there, very popular ones that are just really full on, and I call them out.

Ken: I'm gonna call out, I'm out. I don't, I don't owe nobody anything but kids. I owe kids. All right, so lemme just, lemme just say rap.

Ken: I'm sorry, I, let me just say wrapper sites. The, the, okay, let me lemme say it this way. The, to me, integrity is first. Integrity is [00:21:00] first. I, I, when I say wrapper sites. It is okay to say we use chat GBT and we're making it easier for you as a teacher because it's a lot of learning curve. But here's what water is.

Ken: Water is H2O. Like that's water. We're ice, right? We're the ice company, right? And if that's how we teach. So if I don't make that absolutely clear. There's a little bit of deception to me. Like you've gotta be absolutely clear, especially for teachers, we're, they're exhausted. I'm, I've been a principal, like they're exhausted.

Ken: I did everything I could do to help them out, as you know, because they're exhausted. They don't deserve to have to look at fine print. They don't deserve to have to do that. So you've gotta be honest. So I. Me I was giving for free. I was literally for free. I, with ai, if you know ai, like I'm an ai, like in the world area, not, not the ed tech, not just ed tech, right?

Ken: But like I knew the money's an enterprise, right? So I was never gonna make money, like with teacher subscriptions or school subscriptions. Even the money's an enterprise, [00:22:00] but the enterprise can help organize the entire legit, you know, the entire thing. Banks are using it to organize our whole thing, you know, uh, healthcare is using it to organize a whole thing, but when you.

Ken: Don't tell teachers who are being introduced to the first time to an LLM. What? An LLM Actually, factually without question is. To me that that's the beginning of deception and I can't trust nothing else that happens. Now, wrapper sites are great if it's like, you know, like I go to seven 11, I don't know, you know, I go to seven 11 because I don't feel like cooking.

Ken: So, you know, I, I know that like they, they probably, you know, I'm probably paying three times, whatever but they're honest about it, right? So, uh, edu aid, I, I know that you, I know that I, I'm not. I get paid nothing from nobody. I want to be very, very clear. I'm talking about integrity versus not integrity.

Ken: Thomas, I talked to like, like the, the, I call 'em T squared. T squared to Tom. So they, what I loved about [00:23:00] them, what warmed my heart was that they are very clear about what it is. They are like, this is an LOM, this is chat, GBT, or this is whatever. This is what we do to help you. We are in, we are in education, and we're gonna make it, we're gonna make the bridge easier for you to move into this.

Ken: There is no, no question as to what's going on. Every time I was on the internet, people who were a part of like magic school, I must call 'em out Magic school and I'm only being fair because I've reached out to them several times. I don't, I went off the last couple days 'cause somebody in inboxed me and said I was.

Ken: Do it for clicks and likes and that is, that, that is low. That is low. So edu a spends a lot of time being very honest about what they are and who and what they do. And I can, I don't at, when I figure that out, I just, I left 'em alone because I can trust anything that they do at this point. Right. Like, but on the flip side, if you obscure that, because teachers don't know what LLMs are, they don't know what AI is, they don't [00:24:00] understand that like.

Ken: You're really just prompt pre prompting. I'm just really literally pre prompting. They don't understand that, but they could appreciate it if you're honest. So there are a lot of sites, I don't even know all the AI sites, but if AI sites are honest about what they're and what they do, and they are really giving you their expertise to unlock your expertise, and they are closing that bridge and fixing that bridge for you, that's perfect.

Ken: I think that's perfect, like, because I think it's perfect because AI is personalized, but if I'm, if I have to hide or pretend or obfuscate or say, well, sometimes I use this, sometimes I use that. We can't do that. Like we can't do that. Right? We can't do that. So that, that, to me, that hurts teachers. That assumes that they are not intelligent.

Ken: It takes advantage of what they don't know instead of helping them understand. And we don't have any place for that in the field of education. Ed tech is going to be strong in this new era, right? Because ed tech still has this place. But if EdTech wants to slide over and pretend to be something that, that's gonna be a problem, right?

Ken: But there may be some ai, [00:25:00] AI gives you be a, it gives you an opportunity to be more, uh. Specialized even, right? So I see AI sites for like the, the Revolutionary War, right? Like, you know, you might go to this, you know, it gives a chance to be specialized, but you have to be honest, we are missing integrity.

Ken: And it was not our fault. It was allowed. Our entire nation is going through the same thing right now, right? We're just a microcosm, be honest. We have to be true because all of that has torn us apart, has been things that have been hidden and the bureaucracy and all that stuff. Thankfully, I think it's going away, but if we're in ed tech, it's got to be about honesty and truth.

Ken: No one should be confused about what we have behind the scenes. A wrapper sight is fine as long as they know that, Hey, I can go right to Magic school and get a recipe for my dinner tonight. Right? In that second grade English slot, teachers didn't know that and when I would say that. They would tell me that I'm wrong.

Ken: So I said, you don't, that means they're not, it's not being clear to them or it would be [00:26:00] deleted, like, like there was some other stuff going on. So I reached out 'cause I said, you know, I know that a deal wouldn't do this. Like, maybe he doesn't know whatever. I reached out, I reached out and I got, it's the swarm.

Ken: The swarm came and the swarm to me, honestly, or I think those educators are, are great people like, like anybody who wants to innovate to fix education. A great human, but I think that they may have been misled also. They don't know, like I'm, I'm waiting for the day that like we we're just all honest with each other and, and our teachers are able to be special with kids and we can get outta their way.

Ken: That, that's, that's, that's what it's,

Fonz: yeah. You know, and you, that brings me also to listening to you to where I have been even since 2022. What happened for me was that I was taking a doctoral course and the 2022, that November had just come out. Chad, GPT, I was playing around with it. I was like, oh my gosh, this is [00:27:00] amazing.

Fonz: This is, and then I had to do research on ai and I'm talking about, you know, from 2020 on, you know, even prior to that. And then when I got to the section of learning what. Data Rentership is, is all that data, everything that they collect. What they do really essentially is they're, you know, that's how they're making money, you know, a lot of the platforms, and that's why they said if it's free, then you are the product.

Fonz: And many times we do not get a lot of clarity. In the terms of service as far as how this is going to be used, how those clicks are gonna be used, how the student data is gonna be used. They always, you know, they and they do their due diligence in wording it. And I know that, you know, many say like, well, we put guardrails on this my.

Fonz: I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that. My stance, sorry. Real quick. My stance has always been how can you put guardrails on something that you don't own, you're plugging in to something else other than your programmer saying if [00:28:00] this, don't do that, and then just to, you know, kind of control that output. So yeah, that, that's where I'm at on that is the knowledge cutoff dates too, on a lot of platforms that I've seen it in some where.

Fonz: Their knowledge cutoff date is, you know, 2023. We're already 2025. Now, they either haven't updated their terms of service and privacy, or maybe that's really where they're at, you know, so it, there's still a lot of stuff there that, for me I, I wanna cheer them on, but when I read those things, I'm like, I don't know if I'm there yet.

Fonz: You know, I, I'm seeing it, but. Again, that transparency and being open about it sometimes that that is where I'm kind of like in the middle all the time and just very cautious

Ken: and you should be like, so I think I, I think. So we need the, like the ones that run out front, right? That's me, right? I I'll, the first time I hear about something, I'm running after it.

Ken: I don't care, right? Like you need people like that, but you also need to listen to people like that, that that's the other issue, right? You [00:29:00] gotta listen to them. 'cause if they, they've had some success, I started realizing something was off when. You're asking me for data and I gave you the data and it didn't matter.

Ken: Right? Like, like, like what, what else do you I said, I started with the data that the school system is failing. That's the data I started with. Like, I don't need any other data than, than we're failing. Right. And so, so there was a little bit more like. I'm starting to learn a little bit that, that I didn't know.

Ken: I'm, and, and education, and I, I, you, you know this, in education, they, the layers are thick in between. Like they they're, so teachers really don't know what goes on in a second layer. Principals really, I'll tell you, do not know what's going on above them, right? Like, I'm, I owe no one but kids.

Ken: So when I talk, I'm telling the truth. Like so they don't know. And that's by design, right? That's by design. So, so what was happening was. Now if you see me looking down at teachers, looking at 'em now, I see knowing what I about ai, they're not getting direction and they're trying their hardest. Like I'm not trying to be like emotional, but like these teachers are trying their hardest man like and I know what it is.[00:30:00]

Ken: And every teacher that has left these teachers are not bad people. Like they left because they cared. So if you have any like hesitation, it's probably 'cause something in your soul says this is not it. This something is off about this, right? Like. And you know that, and so out of protection and then they start getting bullied, right?

Ken: Like, or it's, and then it's and, and so here's what I'm saying. The data privacy stuff is, I think there are lots of things that can be in the way of success that are intentionally placed there. Data privacy, if you know anything about ai. You just cut, cut and paste the internet, uh, policy that you had, right?

Ken: You, you don't need to do much more than that. And as a matter of fact, if you don't clarify that you're using a wwrapper site, then you get the opposite because then teachers trust an AI site that's third party because they think in their brain. We've been looking at the, uh, uh, educational site for our [00:31:00] entire careers.

Ken: You don't know if you don't tell 'em the truth, they'll put more information in ai. Just because they, I hope that makes any sense. But it's, it's just, you're, by doing it the opposite, you're hurting the teachers. They have already gone through enough. They've gone through enough. Like stop it. So what I think we have to have a discussion about, and I think it's fair, is if we're honest, that's how I know when that magic school thing happened.

Ken: That's how I know people are not being honest. If we're honest about data privacy, you would've checked that already. If you're working, you, you're marching around here as an AI ethicist, uh, AI governance, whatever you would have known, or unless you don't know ai, either you don't know ai or you would've known that that is, that is not a safeguard.

Ken: And why are we guarding, why are we guarding anything? We should be guarding things away from kids today. I saw for the first time, and I'm gonna shut up after I say this today. I saw it for the first time and it warmed my heart. And I'm trying not to be emotional, man. Like, like I'm passionate. I'm passionate because.

Ken: Because I know in my [00:32:00] community, as a minority, I'll be honest with you, I know what not having access. Can do and perpe and, and perpetuity. Right? I know what not having access can do. And so I felt that this was, this was intentional. And so today I saw, uh, it, it was an educator in Africa, and he said like, he's a proud gatekeeper.

Ken: And I, I immediately was like, no, no, the gate, because I, I had been trying, nobody was giving Kennedy attention, right? Because I, I know what it is now. Now it's because. Ken was not in it for anything wrong. I was there for you. Right. So like you can't have Ken around if you're trying to steal money from people, right?

Ken: So like, but this guy called Gatekeeper. I was like, no. The gatekeepers kept innovate out. So I almost, I like then I looked, he's in Africa and outside in that world, they see gatekeeping as protection, protecting the kids from the bad stuff. That's the gate they keep in America. It seems like the gate we're keeping is protecting the bad stuff from the good people.

Ken: When he said that, he says, I'm a [00:33:00] proud gatekeeper. I got it. Now what? I, I said, I got it. We need gatekeepers. The real ones. The ones that make sure that teachers should not have to refine print. They should not have to feel like they're gonna get in trouble. If they do, they, they, they don't even need, they don't need, they, ed tech, they need like the, the honest ed tech, because you need kids.

Ken: You need to be able to, you know, see if kids are learning. Yes, but they don't deserve. To have to sift through more paperwork to figure out what is, what they could put in there and what they can't, they, they don't do that. That's why I said, and this is it, enterprise, when I, when I put out the, um, the evidence of things unseen or, uh, evidence of things not seen, that was a new era of framework for education based on what I know is truth.

Ken: I, I don't, I know it's truth. And what it does is it, it, it builds the teacher. We have so much talent outside of the field of education that just simply could not stand one more day of their dignity being ripped [00:34:00] apart, right? And we, we pushed them out and we made them look bad. They may be the best, the, the best force, right?

Ken: They may be the best force out there. So the ones that are remaining that are holding on tight, you don't lie to them. You do not take advantage of them and stop treating 'em like children. So when the AI policies and governance and all these people are marching around with the.

Ken: I had been with kids as a principal. I, I, every day I had to shield my teachers from stuff I knew did not make sense. I would, I would get in trouble actually. I won't get in trouble 'cause this is all fake. I will not get in trouble. You're not getting rid of me. I knew that all I had to do was love my babies and if I love them babies, the parents would, would stand up for me.

Ken: I knew that. So if there was something that didn't make sense, that robbed teachers of dignity, I did not bring it to my building. I did not bring it to my building and all, all that, all I want is that for the entirety of education. And so when I see these things, when I see things like data privacy and this and that and, and all, we gotta do governance, we [00:35:00] gotta put guard rails, we gotta do all that.

Ken: I feel like it's limiting. I feel like it's intentionally limiting 'cause none of these words occur in other countries, and none of these words are priorities in private schools in our own nation. Let teachers be human, use AI to clear the forest and let them shut their doors and be great. That's what AI is for.

Ken: I'm sorry.

Fonz: That is very well stated and very well said. No, I'm sorry. I, I'm passionate, man. No, no, no. And that's great. And that's what we love here. And that, and that's what I love about doing this show, Ken, is the fact that it, it's, I am right in the middle and I give equal time to both sides. And again, it's just to continue these conversations and sometimes, you know, maybe there's somebody there like.

Fonz: Like, I reached out to you because of what you shared, and I was like, I gotta have Ken because I need somebody that is again, like you right now, that it has nothing to fear [00:36:00] and you're just being open and honest with your observations. Because like we were talking right now, even myself in my current role and in any role, it's like I, there are very few and many people know this and I've talked to those people and I said that.

Fonz: There are probably just a handful of platforms or apps that I will directly stand behind because of their openness, transparency, genuineness, authenticness, uh, and authenticity, I should say, and about them and what they're doing, and that they're very open about it. There are many other apps too, where I'm just like, well, I'll say I've seen stuff that comes up.

Fonz: I, you know, sometimes it's like, Hey, I got this weird answer. This student got this weird answer and I was like, well, this shouldn't be happening. You know, why? Why should a teacher have something else to worry about on their plate? That's when they put this application on there and the student gets a wrong answer or something that is harmful or gets, you know, even a lot of the image, uh, creators, when you type in certain words.[00:37:00]

Fonz: There still hasn't been a fix for that. When I type in the word janitor, you know, I always get the same images, even when I try to create myself and then I put their stocky Hispanic male, it always puts me with a beard and a mustache, you know? And I'm like, and that's 'cause I put like, no beard, no mustache.

Fonz: Dash and I always look the same, you know? So it's a lot of those things that I'm concerned about and worried about because yeah, maybe some people, and sometimes I think like, am I overthinking this? But no, it's like you're saying that intuition that I feel like, wait a minute, like this isn't where it needs to be yet.

Fonz: You are not overthink. So maybe we need to hold off a bit on that and let's see which ones are really working and are doing, like you said, no, so,

Ken: so, so, you're right, you're right. But here's where we lean in. It's, it's opposites. Everything in reverse. This is, this is, I tell teachers and I tell educators literally everything in reverse.

Ken: Everything in reverse. That's my, that's my thing. That flip your thinking. Just, just try. Just flip your thinking. They're L large, I [00:38:00] call 'em large learning models, but they're large language models. I use L for learning, just to kinda give teachers to understand that it, it does learn, right? So it also wants to be corrected.

Ken: It can be corrected. I had the same issue you had. I typed in on a father's day. I said, good father tying a tie for his, a black son. And it was a white dad tying a tie for a black child. Not that white. That's not what I'm saying. It's just, it, it assumed that good father meant white male and, and if a son needed a tie to be tied, it's a black male.

Ken: So, 'cause at first I said Father tying, you know, good father tying Ty and it was too white. Then I said, no black son. Then it was a white father, black son. I said. It didn't even put the two together, you know? So as you use it and you fix it and you do that, we need to lean in because the more we lean in, the more it's learning it.

Ken: It learned what we had put in in the beginning. So everything that we gave, it was a snapshot of who we were. If we want to be better now, we should see it being better, like. You may put something [00:39:00] in, in Los Angeles, I may put something in Maryland if we're both fixing chat, GPT and correct saying, no, not that.

Ken: No, not that this. It's learning and collectively we're building it. So really, if you think about it in reverse, and this is, this sounds really crazy, I know, but we almost can tell how much better we are as a society if everybody's using it and we're seeing better outputs because it's going to do what it's learning from us.

Ken: Right now it's, it's it, it has what we had. It has what we were. That's why we have to use it. And educators especially have to use it because we might have to, we're actually the ones you think the robots are teaching the kids. No, we need to teach the robots. It's not, they're not robots by the way. We need to teach them and we need to teach the kids, right.

Ken: So that when they use it, it's building the LLM the right way. It's building the right way, you know, so I, and, and that

Fonz: kind of brings me to kind of my, my last question as we kind of start wrapping up. I wanna ask you, you know, for you. How can we better this education scape? You know, as far as the collaboration with maybe teachers and [00:40:00] ed tech companies.

Fonz: You know, should there be, you know, a place at the table for those educators or, because right now, you know, I think many times it's there there's companies that have been started by educators, but then at the same time it's like there's some that haven't and are still being put out there and maybe they don't have that experience and they give you what they.

Fonz: Think the teacher wants. So for you, what might your suggestions be as far as your perspective? What do we need to do make to make this better?

Ken: So what, and I've thought a lot about this, right? So the reason why, and you gotta look at that framework, the reason why that framework is so complete and so pure is I sat as a principal.

Ken: I, I, that is a po That is a very unique position because you know everything, like, you know how everything works, you don't know what they're doing because things are, are hit. But I, I can 100% tell you what a Friday school lunch in elementary school has to do with the budget at the top, right? [00:41:00] So that's what AI actually does.

Ken: So. To begin, there cannot be any silo discussions. Right. That's the issue that started it where teachers ran to it because they heard that it's not gonna take your job. It, you know, AI's gonna take your job. It's, it's somebody who use ai. Whatever they're saying is, I was looking like no teachers. You guys deal with kids, they're never lose their job.

Ken: You're never, anybody that tries to put robots in the classroom is gonna fail. Like it's gonna fail, right? They, they tried something somewhere else, it's gonna fail. So what we need to do is it needs to be always, needs to be diverse groups. That's the point of ai. It always, AI is trying to pretend to be collaboration.

Ken: That's what it's pretending to be. Every piece of technology is pretending to be something we just did not know what AI was pretending to be because we do not collaborate. We don't have like, we don't naturally do that anymore. The internet is fast communication between computers. AI is like internet and 3D.

Ken: It's collaborating with information. AI is what you don't even need to. I [00:42:00] kept saying AI is not tech. And people are like, this guy is weird. It's not tech. I bet you're figuring it out. Now. AI is what happens when we collaborate, when three people get together and start sharing ideas, all of a sudden it seems like we all get smarter.

Ken: Or when I was a. My joke was, uh, I, I was a seventh grade assistant principal and I had three kids in detention that were like, I was like, no, they should not be together. They're gonna be very creative with that. So we, we have to start by being, um, collaborative, but everything in reverse. The teacher is now the, the boss.

Ken: We we've hurt them enough. We've hurt them enough. And I am unapologetic about that. And anybody who does not see it that way, you can absolutely probably work backwards and see that they are still waiting to maintain control and treat teachers like kids. The teachers are the bosses now, right?

Ken: So what we need to do is figure out what they want, right? Ed Tech has tried it. Ed Tech has, has. Ed Tech has been in the worst situation, right? They the, they pay for it, but the teachers use it and they don't, they, ed tech knows where the gaps are, right? So Ed tech is like, ah, you know, we built this thing, [00:43:00] but we need to, the teacher needs to be the boss.

Ken: Whatever the teacher wants is what the teacher gets. Everybody else needs to move out the way. And if we don't do that, I will leak. All of the secrets go going up because none of that really matters if the teacher isn't in charge. Anything up there that we're doing that doesn't serve the teacher means that we don't want them with the kid.

Ken: We gotta move everything out of the way so the teacher and the child can be together. And our start in conversations with teachers say, what do you need? What can I do? They know more than we ever will. I learned that in my classroom. I told that to, uh, my teachers when I was a principal. I don't know.

Ken: Fifth grade, ELA. I won't even pretend to know. Fifth grade, ELA. You are the fifth grade ELA. You got a master's in reading. I will. I'm not trying to be that. I can help you connect with that kid. What can I do to serve you? What can I do? What data can I give you that will help you out in your classroom?

Ken: That's what happened. We need to start with the teacher. They are the boss. We owe them. We have hurt them. We have hurt them. We have hurt them. They are the boss. And then we ask them what they want and when that happens, we [00:44:00] all get around them and we figure out, so they leave and go back with kids. Then we sit around and figure out how to put into action what they asked us to do.

Fonz: Nice. That is fantastic. Thank you so much for that perspective. Ken. Thank you so much for today too as well. Like everything that you shared, your passion, your authentic voice, your genuineness, I mean, like I said, this is, I'm thankful that you, we were able to make this conversation happen and I really do appreciate your shares.

Fonz: Ken, thank you so much. But before we wrap up. I always love to end the show with the last three questions. So Ken, hopefully you are ready. So, as you know, every superhero has a point of weakness or something that weakens him. So for example, Superman kryptonite kinda weakened him. So I wanna ask you, Ken, in the current state of education, what would be your current EDU kryptonite?

Fonz: So I'm gonna

Ken: flip it, man. What [00:45:00] was a kryptonite and the old, maybe our strength in the new, right? So before I would say my kryptonite is this passion, this excitement. Like I get riled up and because I love kids. And so, you know, in the old system, we're supposed to be controlled, maintained, right? Can, can't be like that now.

Ken: I, I don't now I gotta be me, like let me be me. Right? So my kryptonite was, was really that I, I get passionate, um, and that passion sometimes goes before me. So, so that is something I still have to work on, right? So, like, you know, I do have to just because I grabbed AI and ran with it and, and it was the best thing since sliced bread the first day I touched it.

Ken: I have to know that just like I want everybody to be themselves. I have to be patient with people who are being themselves. I can't interpret that because they're not, you know, after I did it long enough, I realized that they're actually being wise about it. Right. I'm not, that's why I'm think I'm not, I'm gonna jump into it and jump out of it if it hurts, but I think for me it's, it's [00:46:00] learning just what I want.

Ken: Seeing that I am also not doing that sometimes when I'm. Driving AI because of the benefits. When you gotta give people a chance to, it's an adjustment. So that's, for me, that's my Crip, my education kryptonite. So if I'm excited, it's not 'cause it's, I'm passionate, that's all. I'm not trying to like push anybody down the road anymore.

Fonz: Love it. Love it. Great answer, Ken. I appreciate it. All right. Question number two, Ken. Yeah. If you could have a billboard with anything on it, what would it be and why? Tell the truth.

Ken: Tell the truth. Truth wins. Tell the truth and the reason. Because once truth is here, then we all can live free. Right? We all can be free, right?

Ken: Nobody's hiding anything we can trust because when you trust, you move fast. And, and no one needs us to trust more than people who work with kids because, because they are dependent on us. So I, I would say tell the truth. Um, be truthful, be open and be honest. Um, even if people don't agree with it.

Ken: But we've gotta be able [00:47:00] to trust each other because kids are at stake.

Fonz: Love it. Great answer. All right. And the last question, if you could trade places with anyone for a day, anyone, who would it be and why?

Ken: I didn't think you would ask me this, man. It would be a, it was a 5-year-old kid that I had that, um, I was a principal and it was a 5-year-old kid, and the system was trying to make me not give the kid what they needed. If I could trade places, 'cause I haven't seen him since I've been gone. I would trade places with him so I could be five again and have fun away from all this.

Ken: That's why I do this. I'm sorry that I, I'm sorry man. You might, but if I could trade places, it would be with him. Like I, they wanted me to, and it wasn't anybody individually. It's, it's just, [00:48:00] it was not designed. He has autism. He had autism and he was tearing the room up. He's a little black boy. And all I saw was the other 19 kids see a black boy mad.

Ken: They didn't understand he had autism. They just saw him throwing chairs. So, so this was a PSYOPs nightmare. I, I didn't see it as just a kid being a problem. And, and I tried to move him and they, you try this, you try to try that. Like, I got him moved, risking my life and career, basically. But I don't care. I, I, but I wanna see him again.

Ken: I wanna see him again. I, I would trade places with him to see if he's okay.

Fonz: All right. Thank you, Ken. I really appreciate that. Again, just the passion. Uh, I love it. Uh, thank you so much for just really opening up and sharing your heart, sharing your experience. Uh, like I said, this is why we do what we do, man.

Fonz: Yeah. Just to bring some great, honest conversations and sometimes the conversations may be a little different than what other people expect, but sometimes we gotta speak the [00:49:00] truth much. That's right. You, you gotta ask can about asking about No. My,

Ken: my, no. My kindergarten team bought me the shirt. It's probably with her gift.

Fonz: Oh, okay. There you go. I love it.

Ken: Yeah,

Fonz: I love it. Well, Ken, before we wrap up, can you tell our audience members who might be interested in reaching out to you, how it is that they can connect with you?

Ken: Uh, if you're on LinkedIn, hit me on LinkedIn. That's the best place. Um, and we, we are building the edge of Renaissance, Renaissance, it's called the Edge Renaissance.

Ken: So it's innovate is really, uh. We're here to help people make it make sense for their districts. Right? And, and in a real way and honest way. Like, we have no product, but we will direct you to products who are telling the truth. We'll, we will, uh, help you align things. That's what we do, right? So, uh, the EDU renaissance kind of like outlines that, but hit me on Edna.

Ken: Uh. Uh, LinkedIn or go to www dot Innovate, that's like educational innovation. So E-D-N-O-V-A-T-E, edno.ai. Um, or you can email me@kenatinnovate.ai. So, um, I we, we are here in truth to [00:50:00] help people. Move forward, like let's do this thing. Right. That, that's, that's all I want. That's all I want. That's all I want.

Ken: That's all he

Fonz: wants. Perfect. Bye brother. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it, my friend. And for all our audience members, please make sure that you visit our website at my EdTech life where you will watch this episode. We'll definitely make sure that we link all of Ken's information, his website.

Fonz: That way you can go ahead and connect with him, reach out to him if you have any questions or if you need anything, just feel free to reach out 'cause he definitely has a heart to help. People, and especially if it's something that's gonna get down to the students as well. So please make sure you reach out to him and make sure that you check out the other 315 episodes that we have where I promise you three, 315 other episodes where I promise you you will find a little something that you can sprinkle onto what you are already doing.

Fonz: Great. Like I mentioned to you guys at the very beginning, we love you. We thank you so much for all of your support. Thank you so much for all the downloads. Thank you so much for the [00:51:00] follows, to our sponsors, thank you to Book Creator who is our newest partner. Thank you to you. Big shout out to you to EDU educate to Yellow Dig.

Fonz: Thank you. Educate for believing in our mission. Edu Educate. We appreciate. Yes, that's right. Thomas Thompson. Thomas. Text me back. Thomas Thomas Thompson and Thomas Hummel. Great people. Make sure that you follow them too as well. So thank you my friends. I really appreciate all of your support and until next time, my friends, don't forget, stay techie.