Episode 284: Joe Santiago

Episode 284: From DJ Decks to Amplifying Creativity with Adobe Evangelist Joe Santiago

[00:00:30] Fonz: Hello everybody. And welcome to another great episode of my ed tech life. Thank you so much for joining me on this wonderful day and wherever it is that you're joining us from around the world. We thank you as always for all of your support. We appreciate all the likes, the shares, the follows.

Thank you so much to our new YouTube subscribers. We really appreciate it. As you know, our mission is to get to 1000 subscribers this year, and we just Thank you for all of that support and a big shout out to our sponsor EduAid. Thank you so much EduAid for sponsoring our show and believing in our mission of connecting educators, one show at a time.

And I am excited about today's conversation because today we're going to be talking about creativity and amplifying creativity. So I'm really excited to welcome to the show today, Joe Santiago, who is joining us all the way from Brooklyn today. Joe, how are you doing today?

[00:01:23] Joe: I'm doing great. Thanks for having me here.

I'm feeling good. It's Friday morning here. Um, and I don't know, just good summer. I'm good vibes all around. So thank you for having me.

[00:01:33] Fonz: Awesome. Well, I'm excited. Thank you so much for being here this morning. As you know, I mean, this is kind of like a, not necessarily last minute. I know I had reached out, we talked about it and it just so happened that it worked out.

Out that we got, we get to do this show today. So I'm really excited to dive in into the world of creativity and just getting to know a little bit more about Joe Santiago as you know, I get to see your uh, Instagram account and you and Jesse Labinsky have so much fun. Sometimes I think it's a little too much fun now, but it's great.

You know, that's a wonderful part and big shout out to Jesse. Cause Jesse's been a guest on the show too, as well. So big shout out to him and the rest of the Adobe team, but Joe, let's go ahead and get started. So for all our audience members that are joining us today, that may not be familiar with your work yet.

Can you please give us a little brief introduction and what your context is within the education space?

[00:02:27] Joe: Sure. So my name again is Joe Santiago. Uh, right now I am an Adobe education evangelist. Uh, so I focus on New York city. Essentially sharing creativity with teachers across the city. But before that, you know, I started years ago as just the tech, right.

Uh, so fixing computers right out of, right out of college. Um, I worked for a school system for a little bit, and then, you know, this was around the time of nine 11 after nine 11, you know, as a New Yorker, I was like, I think I need a little change. So at this time, um. You know, my wife and I were my new wife and I decided we're gonna move to Florida, moved down there, and I did focus my career on technology.

So I was a business analyst for for a large health care system, um, for about seven years. Two Children later, my wife and I decided, let's move back home because we need the support system. And I did work in I. T. For a little bit, but then I had the opportunity to teach. So just even more backstory. I am the product of, uh, uh, elementary school principal.

So my mom was a principal for 20 years teacher all her life, right? So from right out of college, all the way to retirement, she was an educator. And my dad, you know, came from Puerto Rico and he was 18 years old with no money. Uh, educated himself, got a couple of master's degrees, ended up becoming a guidance counselor.

Uh, so that was kind of ingrained in my, in my being. Right. Um, but because of that, sometimes you're like. I don't want to do that. My parents did that. I want to do something different. Uh, so I did have the opportunity to teach when I came back from Florida and I was like, all right, let me try it and see how I like it.

And what I found that it was, it was like the most impactful part of my life. Um, just being able to, to reach out to students in such a way and connect with them and my goal coming into the classroom was like, okay, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this, like. How I want to do it. I want it to show real world experience to all my students.

So I took that, what I learned in, in, you know, working in technology and I was a tech teacher, so my goal was like, I'm going to teach you what people really use, not what we think you use, but this is like what they're using. Um, and. What's funny is that even before I had formal education training, you know, I have master's degrees at this point, but, um, I focused on project based learning even before I knew what it was called.

So I knew like, okay, here's what we're going to do. And here's how we're going to get there. And that was really interesting for me learning, like, you know, like I started getting, I went through my master's and I was like, oh, wow, this is a thing. Um, so that was really impactful. And, you know, through this journey, I met a couple of students who really, um, Really molded, I guess, where I am now, because I had I had this student real tall guy.

He was sixth grade, sixth grade, but like 511 big kid. And he would follow me around and ask me, hey, how do I fix these computers? So essentially, he became, um, you know, my tech helper. And then from there had another student and another student. Long story short, I ended up, you know, having three students in every class who were able to help me fix computers.

I was the tech teacher, eventually the tech coach, and I had this little army of people who are my helpers. And it was just, it was amazing. And it was so interesting to see the empowerment. I also had like a select group of students who became sort of my pseudo homeroom because there were 6th, 7th, and 8th graders.

It was mixed, but they would deliver computer cards. They'd make sure things were nice and tidy. Fix, uh, fix interactive panels and things like that. Uh, but that was such an amazing thing. So from there, um, I became a tech coach, uh, through that process. Uh, you know, I started doing some work with Google when I was in New York city, uh, eventually becoming a Google trainer and we would, we would do these trainings for, um, for New York city educators for the level one, level two exams, and, and we were very successful.

So people took notice and. I got offered a job as an instructional technology director in the New York City public school system. Um, as I was doing that, I decided to go for my administration degree for to become a school administrator. And during that time, um, you know, it was like a weekend intensive kind of, uh, course load.

One of my professors kept asking me, he's like, Hey, Do you want to come work for me? And I was like, you know, like he, he, uh, I'm in Brooklyn. He's in long Island. So it's, it's far. Um, I was like, no, no, thank you. Um, because you know, I knew it would be taxing on my family, but, uh, by the end of that course, I had a job as the executive director of, uh, Um, for a school district running all facets of it, um, and instructional technology.

And the reason I took that, even though it was kind of, it was far for me. So there was a lot of travel involved. I took it because I wanted to learn. So New York city as a whole, New York city school systems, gigantic. So you have so many people doing so many different jobs, um, that I would never get the experience I would if I were in a smaller district.

Where I'm dealing with things at the state level. Um, you're dealing with families in the community. You're dealing with like all the facets really like shaping technology, um, for this whole community, which was really interesting and surprised my first year was COVID. So that was like, it was a, it was a shocking experience.

Um, because I'm basically essentially a baby administrator, right? Like when you're a school administrator, it takes six months. It takes like three years to kind of learn things because they tell you, you know, an administrator school. They're like, Hey, first year, you just kind of pay attention, see how to feel it out, see, see the things you want to change.

Don't make changes right away. And then all of a sudden the world changed for me. Um, so, you know, I went essentially as an unknown into the school district and all of a sudden I'm. I have a seat at the table, um, writing the plans for the state of how students are going to learn. Uh, you know, throughout that time, four years later, I meet Jesse at, uh, at an event and You know, the rest is kind of just, just happened.

So for me, timing was perfect. My wife was like, Hey, I never see you. You're working a lot, you know, as a, as an administrator who travels a lot, you know, you're talking 14 hour days, easy. Um, So this was very timely for my family. Uh, and now this is kind of the best part for me because always the best part of, uh, for, for me teaching was, was that part, right?

Not only kids, but adults. Like I love seeing people light up and really when I took the role as an administrator, my focus was like, Oh wow. Now I get to impact a large group of people. Um, with what I do, but I was a little wrong there because there's a lot of, you know, there's paperwork, their decisions by seven, by seven or eight o'clock in the morning.

You've already made 20 or 30 decisions. Um, you know, it's like the, it's, it's almost unfathomable the amount of decisions you make and that's why, like, for, you know, educators out there, you see your, you see your principles. Um, at four o'clock and they're like, now they're starting to work. It's because they've been answering questions all day.

Right. Or, you know, so, so the work for an administrator begins after everyone leaves, because that's really the only time that's why they work so late. Um, but yeah, so that's like, that's kind of the summary of. Of my story in, you know, how I ended up here. Wow. You know,

[00:09:43] Fonz: and that's a wonderful journey. I mean, you've hit on so many things that I definitely want to unpack.

Number one, you know, like you said, uh, one of the things that you mentioned, you know, your parents being in education, you're like, eh, I kind of don't want to do that, you know, same thing went for me. I mean, my parents weren't in education, but they were always like, You know what I saw though, because of being an only child and going to school, it's like all my teachers were becoming friends.

I mean, excuse me, all my friends were becoming teachers. I should say. And I was like, no, I'm going to break that cycle. I'm not going to go into, I'm going to go to school for business and I'm going to be rich and I'm going to take care of my family and this and that. And so graduated with a bachelor's degree, but then I fell into teaching.

Um, and I absolutely fell in love with it. And so it was so cool. And, you know, being in education for 18 years now has been just wonderful from classroom and then moving up as, you know, instructional, uh, software specialist for the district too, as well. The other thing I wanted to touch on too is, um, like you mentioned, you know, doing a lot of project based learning, which is really.

What I started doing a lot once I transitioned from high school to elementary. And so I didn't know that that was a thing either. So right now you just kind of reminded me. It was almost like we're wearing the cool band shirt before the band was cool. And then everybody started, you know, now I'm like, Hey, this is, this is a real thing.

So that's great because a lot of what you described and the feedback and the. The collaboration and just the community that you built with your students as you were describing the way that you would work together and that they would be out there on the, on the campus and things of that sort. Very similar and reminiscent to my story too, as well, being in the classroom and working with my students and teaching them how to code and teaching them how to do, uh, doing robotics and STEM camps and really just hands on learning within the curriculum itself.

And really, it's just a wonderful experience. So that really. Kind of touched my heart because I was like, man, this is so cool that, you know, the way the stories are and, and very similar and, and all that good stuff. But, you know, also just the, the level of experience that you got to have in this period of time is something that is amazing.

And one thing that I always, um, admire. From people is, you know, taking a risk. And I know we're talking about creativity today. And one of the things for me, as far as creativity is taking those risks. But, you know, going back to what you were saying when you're like, Hey, you know, I've got this job offer, but I don't know.

And I don't know if I should, because you knew that there was, you know, some of that downside, obviously family being very important, but then at the same time, sometimes those opportunities, as you mentioned. Don't come too often and then to gain that level of experience would be something very beneficial.

So you jumping in and taking that risk and now that opened up a door to be able to work with educators and be able to teach adults, which is something that we were talking about backstage, where I was like, I'm lucky enough that I get to do some of these Claudio Zavala. So big shout out to Claudio. He's so great.

Yeah, he is. And, but it's great. Like you mentioned is just that, like, my heart fills up with joy when I get to work with educators and show them something new, but making it about them. I was like, this is, I don't want you to think about this as something that you're going to take back and do right away on Monday.

It's like, I want you to work on your own creative expression. Cause sometimes we forget about that a lot because of the curriculum. So let me talk to you. Let me, let's transition into that now. So you'll meet Jesse. Jesse says, Hey, there's an opportunity here. So tell us a little bit about that. And then now some of the work that you're doing as an Adobe evangelist to help amplify creativity.

[00:13:21] Joe: Yeah. So, I mean, you know, that opportunity just came from a conversation. Um, And, you know, they were looking for people, my name kept coming up. So really, you know, like for, for those of you out there who are interested in doing this and, and all you have to do is like, look around at how people are doing things.

My, my trajectory is different than others. So, you know, a lot of people are on the national stage, but I was like super straight up New Yorker. Just like pounding the pavement, making sure that people. Learned what they needed. Right. And, and I always, I tell people like, if you're a good person and you work hard for the most part, things are going to work out because, um, listen, we've all worked with people where like, oh, you know, they're, they're, they're different people, people rise to the top in different ways.

Right. My thing is keep it positive, build relationships, help people because one day you're going to need a little help. And, uh, And people are going to be there. And, and also like the same way people rise, they fall, right? So, so people, you know, you can be like the next best thing. And then all of a sudden tomorrow, you're not.

So just be aware of that in, in how you treat people and work with people. So now like all my experience and really like the creativity piece that I didn't talk about is so behind me is my DJ setup, right? I've been doing this since I was 14 years old. So that, that story started as a kid. Like, um, you know, I'm well into my forties at this point and I'm still doing it because it's my kind of creative, creative outlet.

And, you know, during the time of, of my like traditional career, I also was like DJing nightclubs for 5, 000 people. Right. So that was, that's another side of me. Um, and that's really the creative piece. And what's interesting about my work now at Adobe is I get to plug all that in. So I learned Photoshop.

When I was around 18 years old. So it was just like basically new Photoshop and we would go into Kinko's at like two o'clock in the morning because we could rent terminals. And that was cheap at that point. It's like 9 or something. Um, whereas in the day we can afford it, right? We're kids. Uh, so we go and we would go to Kinko's and design flyers for our events.

And that's really how I started to learn, like how to use a Photoshop and creativity. And, and as a kid, I used to paint and I was always drawing. I was, I was that kid. Right. Always doodling or, um, so that the creative side was always there. And throughout my, throughout my years, you know, dabbled in some like, uh, graphic design and some, some websites and things like that.

But this is the thing behind me. This is the one that sticks forever. Um, what's interesting about my role now is now I get to kind of weave, uh, my education side and then this, and this is the first time I've ever been able to do that because those lives have been completely separate. So I always had a regular job and then I used to do gigs, you know, on the side.

Right. So, and at one point there was a path that I could have taken where my, you know, what I was making at my regular job was almost equal to what I was making DJing just on one or two nights a weekend, you know, so I had, I had to choose. I, I chose what was best for my family. It was like, Stick with that because you know, that the bigger you get, that world is, it's busy, you know, it's, you know, I was driving around to go to, uh, to, to go to my job as executive director, but here it would have been like traveling, traveling, and you're never seeing people.

So, so I made it, I made the decision. So this is kind of my creative outlet, but now like for the first time I get to like wear it proudly and this becomes part of my work, which is really interesting. So, The creativity piece, like I finally get to be in a position where all those parts of me. I get to share with others.

Um, and really like now, like my, now that I'm thinking about like how this works for me in the future, because I really, I worked so hard to separate it. Now it's like, okay, how am I bringing this together so that we can impact kids? Because there are tons of people like you and I, um, That whose needs really weren't addressed in school, right?

So I remember eighth grade. I remember my teacher drawing the Civil War and chalk on the board. And I use this frequently when I do sessions, because that's one of the, like, I remember it vividly. I don't remember much else about eighth grade, but I remember her drawing on the board. And now, as an adult, I can reflect and say, oh, wow, like, I'm a really visual learner, not just like a visual, like, I can see it and I can do it.

I'll remember it like, you know, almost photographic, right? So like there, there's situations where I will remember, I can close my eyes and I can visualize. And that really helped me in my tech career too, because when sometimes you're supporting someone, they call you and you're just like, you close your eyes and I would visualize, okay, you're going to click here.

You're going to do this. You're going to do that. Um, but not until I was an adult, did, did I really understand that? Um, so, so part of my role now is I get to work with so many different teachers and say, Hey. There are a lot of people like me and like using tools, like, and listen, we, you know, I'm an evangelist for Adobe.

So we use Adobe express, but whatever tool you're going to use, like allow kids different outlets. And that's why I like project based learning because you can do different jobs, right? Hey, you're really good at this. You're really good at that. So you can kind of like split things up and that's how it works in real life.

Right? So at my job, maybe I'm really good at one thing. Someone's really good at another and we work together. Uh, and I know, like, as as educators, we want to give the student the whole well rounded experience. Um, but, but we need to understand that, you know, there are different, you know, different personalities and different learning styles in those classrooms and maybe you look at someone.

And you don't see that, but maybe it's in there, right? So, so they're like, you can't tell what someone's learning style is just by looking at them. You need to kind of dig deeper. So that's kind of what I try to do, you know, here at Adobe and just, uh, work with teachers to have kids create and do different things because at the end of the day, you know, not everyone realizes what I did, right?

Like sometimes you need to be led to that. Um, yeah, so just, you know, You know, and I kind of went off on a tangent there, but it's like, this is like my, my feelings of the way things are, you know, um, We just, we just need to, I think overall, like as a society, we need to do better in understanding people's differences and, and helping them achieve their best.

[00:19:55] Fonz: There you go. I love that. And, you know, a lot of the things that you mentioned too, especially with project based learning, I myself can really, you know, you, you are, Spot on because of my experience too, as well. I think the mentality, like you mentioned, okay. So when I was in school, maybe I wasn't the best student and I'm not talking about like being a troublemaker or anything, it was just, you know, as far as learning and then right now you, you mentioned that anecdote that you said about a teacher drawing and, you know, seeing that on the board and then that just, I'm sure you still remember it today.

And I don't know. Like I'm there

[00:20:32] Joe: right now.

[00:20:33] Fonz: Well, let me tell you something. The only thing that I remember from high school, obviously I was in band. So I remember like a lot of the band trips and being in chess. But the only thing that I remember from a classroom, it was in ninth grade. And it was from a substitute teacher.

And so what happened is my biology teacher was out that day. Mr. Margo, uh, was out and Mr. Rodriguez came in, who's a substitute teacher, but he was a former chemistry teacher, but so he came in and what we loved about him is the way that he made us feel. And the way that he made the learning fun. Now, I don't remember a lot of the lessons too, because he would go off on a tangent.

Like he never did what Mr. Margo left to do. He's like, no, no, don't worry about that. Let me teach you some, some of the real stuff that you'll need, which kind of reminds me of like, you know, your approach and my approach in the classroom too, as well. You know, I always said, you know what? And even like doing trainings, like you mentioned, uh, like the Google level one, level two, doing those in my district, I just like, kind of like lean it out and trim the fat and give them exactly what it is that they need.

But then what I'll do is the resources that are built, we build, uh, you know, based on what we're doing on a day to day within our curriculum or within the school setting. So then they're like, Oh, I get it now. So, um, you know, so. Mr. Margo reminded me of that, uh, excuse me, Mr. Rodriguez, what I remember is that he came in and he said, guys, I'm going to teach you the most important thing that you'll need to know.

And you'll need, you won't need to know anything else after this for chemistry. He goes and he goes up to the board and in big letters, he writes C Hopkins cafe. And we're all looking at each other. You've got like 25 kids, you know, ninth graders just there. See Hopkins cafe. We're trying to figure it out.

He goes, this is all you'll need. These are the seven elements that the human body needs to, you know, for you to survive and that's it. So I've never forgotten C Hopkins cafe, which is a carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, potassium, iodine, nitrogen, sulfur, calcium, and iron. So I was like, that was the, that, that Joe is the only thing that I remember.

That's the

[00:22:43] Joe: secret. That's a wonderful

[00:22:44] Fonz: secret. But like you said, it's like being hyper visual in that sense that I never forgot. And, you know, very similar to you when I came in. I had sales experience because again, I, I have a bachelor's in business administration, so I did business for about two years or about two and a half years.

And then, uh, being an only child, uh, also going back, you know, a lot of responsibility on me to be available to my parents to care for them too, as well. And so, you know, my dad went through, through, you know, some. Uh, you know, difficult time as far as health wise, he's well now he's doing great, but during that time I had to find it or transition into something, say, Hey, I need something that has more time where I'm available and, you know, weekends off and, you know, of course you get the, some of the breaks.

So I went into teaching. And so I think that a lot of that customer service approach when I went into teaching really helped out a lot, because you mentioned, we don't know Um, you know, we work with various personalities, but we don't know quite yet what is that student's strengths and to play to their strengths for that learning process.

And that's something that really helped out a lot that my students, I not only treated them as students, obviously, but I also treated them as customers where I was like, I've got. 26 customers that I have to teach algebra to, and not every customer is going to buy algebra the same way. So I need to kind of figure those things out and know how they learn and play to their strengths.

And that's one of the things too, that really helped out a lot. And that I see is something that can be, or can bring much success to students within the classroom setting to be able to offer alternatives and multiple modalities of showing. That they have mastered the learning, whether it's a digital learning artifact, whether it's something that they draw, whether it's something that they create, whether it's a, you know, Google slide, or they do a screen, a screen recording of themselves, you know, the, if you give them multiple modalities of sharing that with you.

There's great way to assess that learning is taking place and you're playing to their strengths. And I got to see the fruit of that in a lot of students that would come in, you know, being very shy, maybe there's students that didn't like to, you know, participate and speak up in front of the class. But when you would give them an alternative, you know, on with a Chromebook, they would speak loudly through a Google slide presentation that they created on their own.

Or, you know, they would record a little screencastify, uh, narrative of what it is that they're doing, or they would create a graphic and so on. And that's something that I think is very, I've seen the fruit of it. I've seen the success and I absolutely agree with you in that sense. And so when I go into these trainings too, with, uh, It, you know, adults, it's also playing to their strengths and finding out what their needs and wants are.

And, and it's so important. And that creative component now of now bringing in kind of that business side, that teacher side, but also that creative side that you bring in your own personality into it and play to your strengths too, as well as something that's wonderful when you get to marry all of the things that you love and bring it to your job, it's awesome.

[00:25:52] Joe: Yes, it is awesome. Um, You know, and just in you talking about strengths, what we like to say at our sessions is, hey, you're not going to walk out of here an expert. If you can learn 1, 2, 3 things today, that's wonderful. So, and I think that's, uh, that's that's something I think education does. Uh, they expect you to go to some sort of professional development session, or maybe you're in a professional learning community and you're coming back and you're going to turn key to the entire staff on Monday.

That's like, it's wild. And sometimes I feel like that's just checking boxes, right? Oh, well, we have to show this. So. Let's check that box. But the reality is we don't expect our kids to be experts after one period, right? Or like after a couple of lessons. Oh, well, now you're an expert. Now you can kind of teach the class.

But yet with adults, we do that, which is very interesting to me. So I always like, I always tell people, you know, you learn one, two things today. Awesome. And, and really like, I think because of that, like that, if you say that early on, um, you make those connections early on because some people aren't creative, right?

Maybe they feel like, Oh, I'm not a creative person. Um, if you do that, it, it, uh, like immediately alleviates and, and you have people who are willing to try different things. Um, you know, I was just, this is just something I've been thinking about as you're talking, but. It's funny, like you think of as a student, right?

Kindergarten, you're drawing, you're, you're still drawing up until probably like, I don't know, sixth, seventh grade. And then all of a sudden it becomes like heavy text. We're, we're writing, we're writing, we're writing. Then we go to college to prepare ourselves and we write some more. Don't really get to be so creative unless you're in a creative path.

Right? So for the most part, educators are typing, right? Where, where we're reading, we're typing or where we're creating something similar to that, then we become teachers and then we get to create again, a little bit. Maybe like you're making a bulletin board. You're creating right? If you're if you're an elementary school teacher, you're creating more.

The upper grades create less. You become an administrator. You're creating nothing except for, uh, like presentations. You know, to, to say here, we did this and that. Um, so what I find is like the older we get, we disconnect ourselves from creativity. Uh, and that's, that's a bad thing because creativity is therapeutic, right?

Like when I, when I create something, I can get lost in that. So coming, you know, being a creative type all my life, and then really stopping in my tracks to be like a hardcore administrator, And dealing with the problems where I couldn't really, I didn't have the space to create coming back to, you know, this, this role right now, um, where I get to create all the time is, is beautiful.

So what I tell, what I like to tell educators out there, like, take some time to be creative. Um, even if you feel like you're not a creative type, it's in there. And you're going to feel, you're going to feel that therapy just kind of set in, um, just even, even if it's not on a computer and you just want to like draw something or cut paper, like something as, as simple as that.

Um, once you start doing it. You're going to see that you're, you're going to want to have your kids do it. And once your students are doing it, like ingrain in them that this is something they can do forever. They creativity doesn't have to be taken, even though it's taken for me for a bit. And we do get lost in that because we have so much work and the pressure.

Um, but you know, honestly, the world is a more beautiful place because of creativity. When you see like a beautiful mural or even like you walk into a hotel lobby or whatever it may be. And you're like, wow, this is really nice. That's creativity. And that's somebody's design skill. Um, you know, and that's somebody's job.

So keep that in mind. They're, they're people making like a very good living, just creating and, uh, you know, sharing that love for what they do.

[00:29:59] Fonz: Absolutely. And I think that's very, uh, important. And, uh, I'll be honest with you. I mean, Yes. As you get older, you kind of lose that because life happens. It's like, Oh, you've got responsibilities and things of that sort.

And, you know, you kind of lose out on that. So that's one of the things that I love when I work with educators and we go to these institutes is I tell them, I was like, Hey, this is for you. I want you to see how this can help you. Today. And I want you to be creative with your things, your ideas. It's like, I know that we, as teachers all the time, we, we go to the trainings and it's like, okay, how am I going to tie this to my curriculum and do this?

I said today, I don't want you to think about that too much. I want you to tie it into something that you love. And it's great when we do just even the first activity, when we do either the, the remixable template on the, about me. Or, you know, and all that. And then, um, then they do the book cover and then all of a sudden it's like, Oh, I see people doing cookbooks.

I see people doing things because it's what they're passionate about and what they love. And I said, imagine that it's like today you got, you reconnected maybe with that creative side that you have, but now you know that feeling and you know how this also, when you go back. To your district, whether you do it that Monday or you do it the next week or whenever it is, or the next

[00:31:16] Joe: month, you never, you know, sometimes again, the no time, right,

[00:31:20] Fonz: exactly.

I said, you don't have to go do this right away, but when it comes time to do it, you have this option and just remember how you felt creating that. And think about your students too, as well, where now you're giving them an opportunity to have this wonderful tool that they can do video. They can do animated animations.

They can just bring their. thought process, their creative process out and show you a beautiful learning artifact that has their own special touch to it and their own, you know, just, uh, that their heart, they, they put it out there and it's something that's great where now you get to see how they learn, you get to see their thought process, you get to see their creativity and that's something that is wonderful and amazing and.

I know for myself, uh, it was back in about 2017, 2018. I think it was my second TCEA that I had not do. And at that time it was, uh, at the time it was Adobe spark at the time. It was like, you know, that was the huge thing. And so I started creating a lot of stuff on that and, and getting more involved to just in that creative process, just.

Creating graphics, creating quotes, creating things of that sort. And of course, tying it into my classroom, but you're absolutely right. And the more that you put yourself out there, sometimes, you know, there, there are a lot of people there that can be very critical and be like, huh, like you just keep doing the same thing.

Like, I was like, Hey, you know, and. And it kind of hurt a little bit at first because I didn't understand. I was just kind of putting myself out there, but I got some wise words and I don't know if you ever got a chance to meet him, but obviously Claudio too helped out a lot in my creative process. He's a big influence, but Al Thomas, Al Thomas, also huge, uh, You know, in my creative experience too, as well.

And he was a guest on the show back, like in episode 20, and I'll never forget his quote that he said, he goes that a teacher told him because again, he's very visual too. He would draw out his learning and, you know, things of that sort. And he said, you. You never know, he goes, the impact that you're having on somebody, you know, just from the things that they see you do, he goes, you never know who is watching that, you know, just by you putting out that one thing that you took a risk on to put it out there, how you're influencing somebody else to be able to take that creative risk and spark that, that journey and that interest, like you said, you know, Sometimes we do forget as adults.

And I think it's something that's very therapeutic, like for myself, being able to be here with you and speaking is my, not only professional development that I give for myself, but it's also shared with the world when I let it out, but It, but in creating the clips and finding those specific soundbites that, you know, I love searching for that and putting it out there to inspire people.

And that to me is something that is that I absolutely love. And I really, this to me is like, so. Beyond therapeutic, like every time I leave a conversation, it just fills my bucket and I'm set for the day, the weekend, the week, because I keep revisiting and seeing like, you know, the conversations and everything and more than anything to, just for the people to benefit from it and putting that out.

So, uh, I completely hear you, you know, and, uh,

[00:34:35] Joe: It's important work what you're doing. You know, you're chronicling the stories of educators. Um, you know, how many, how many episodes so

[00:34:43] Fonz: far? This will be 284. So

[00:34:47] Joe: 284 stories that most people wouldn't get to hear. And thanks to you, they do. So thank you.

[00:34:55] Fonz: Thank you.

No, and I appreciate that. And, uh, you know, it really means a lot to me because this is, like I said, uh, Amplifying voices and amplifying creativity is something that is definitely very important to me as well. So thank you so much for being a guest and the work that you're doing too. But, uh, let's talk a little bit more just about, I guess, uh, let's like Joe as a student, I know you talked a little bit about that as the, the visual, we talked about how it can, you know, how now you've married those worlds, but now I just want to talk just, just Joe Santiago of, of aside from Adobe and things like that.

Sure. You know, you. What is your creative process or your creative flow? Like what are, what are the things that you are currently into just personally and how you ideate, maybe iterate and just take some creative risks. Like, tell us what it is that you work on on your personal time.

[00:35:49] Joe: Yeah. So I guess the, at the turn of when 2024 hit.

I wanted to, I wanted to get really good at video editing. So that, that was like my current mission. And I don't know, I think you're probably the same type of person, but when I decide I'm going to do it, I'm all in. Um, so I, you know, started working in premier and I know a little bit of premier, but I ended up actually, I got certified last week.

So I went and like, I studied, I did all these different things, created all these videos and I was like, I'm going to learn this like top to bottom. So I learned that. Um, so that's kind of been my latest mission. So right now, as of today, my next mission is to get really good, uh, with illustrator, uh, because I love kind of vector.

I love vector designs. I love the way they look and they're so cool. Uh, but coming from, you know, Photoshop from the beginning, illustrator to me is like a different language. Okay. Because the toolbar is different. Um, so, so that's what I want to learn right now. Uh, personally, I've been working on my brand.

So, you know, I created a logo for myself recently. Uh, just my colors and, and just kind of deep diving on, on what that looks like. So. As an administrator in a school, I was not, you know, it was not okay for me to like be all over the place on the Internet. I was kind of in the public eye. I could be in the newspaper at any minute.

So it was very discouraged, like, keep quiet on social media. So I worked really hard to like, keep myself away from that. Um, but now it's like me bringing up my presence, kind of showing what, you know, things are including like this room. So I reorganized this this morning, uh, this, this weekend. Um, so now I can stand behind the turntables.

I want to start recording some sessions there, uh, up on the top. There's a green screen, so I could pull that down. Um, and really just creating different zones where I can start recording comfortably, uh, because what I find that I do like creating content, but sometimes the setup process of creating content is daunting and it's paralyzing.

So I'm trying to create a situation for myself where I can flip a couple of switches. Hit record and get some, some good tutorials out and some good instructional content. So that, that's my love. Um, you know, I, I was recording instructional videos when I first started teaching. So I would record and, and I would use myself as my co teacher.

So I'd record the lesson because like when you're teaching, like I was middle school, so you teach seven classes, right? The kids in the middle get the best lessons. The last ones, they get like a good lesson, but maybe you forget something. Cause you, you, you, in your mind, you said it already. The first ones they get, they get good lessons, but you know, that, that sweet spots in the middle.

So what I would start doing for like technical work, you know, like just, um, teaching them how to create different things is I would record myself and I'd play that video and I would act as my co teacher. So I'd walk around, I'd help kids who are struggling as they're watching that. Um, And, and it was, it was really interesting.

Cause at the time, not many people were doing that. So the kids would, would be so tuned in and I'm talking like kids who are usually all over the place. They were so tuned in to me on the screen, um, that I was like, Oh, I'm onto something. So that's really a passion of mine. So that's why, you know, um, I just kind of, I said, okay, well now I get to work in a creative job where I can, I can really flex this, so the video editing.

kind of creating a little studio for myself here. I'm in my basement right now. Um, you know, how to get creative with some angles. We have low ceilings, but, uh, that's where my creativity has been. And I also like to build things. So, you know, I'll just, I'll just start putting things together. I'm like, all right, we're, we're good.

I'm known for like, okay, I don't like that wall in my house. I'm going to rip it out. And like, all of a sudden I got a full renovation in my house. My wife knows that about me as soon as I say, Hey, we're going to do this. She's like, Oh, uh, but it always comes out great. So. But that, that's my, my kind of thing is I like to build, I like to create, um, and right now like the video space and, and the music also.

So I'm kind of getting myself a studio together. That is the right now.

[00:40:09] Fonz: Awesome. That's great. You know, and that's wonderful that, you know, for anybody listening to the show, it's never too late. To tap in to that creative process, the things that you wish you could do, you can do them now. And there's so much access to so many things now and just learning new things.

And, you know, right now we were talking about video and that the creative process and so on. I think it was maybe about before 2020, I think, or if it was maybe, maybe during 2020 or 2021, there is a gentleman on Twitter. I can't remember. I used to follow him. Um, but he does. One creation a day, like he never fails.

And so I started doing that and I said, you know what, I'm going to do something and just kind of push myself creatively and just watch a tutorial and try to emulate, you know, illustrator, Adobe, anything, you know, just creating things with a wonderful platforms. I told myself, I was like, I'm going to see how far I can go.

I made it to 86 straight days of little things. Videos, but using, you know, going back, using tools in different ways and in different ways that I learned. And so I have all of those videos documented on my YouTube channel, which is my tech teacher, 13, but it's so cool, you know, pushing yourself and I'll be honest with you.

It was. Very frustrating at times because you want to put out the content, but you're learning something new, but then at the same time, you feel like, Hey, like this isn't too bad where now it kind of started opening up more ideas and that creative process and problem solving and things of that sort. So I definitely, I would recommend a challenge or just you as yourself personally, to do that.

Challenge yourself to maybe like, Oh, do one creation a day, one creation a week, just something to kind of like spark your creative juices and get that flowing. And just, and, and I recommend honestly, the, the power of social media is great. Where also, you know, you tap into your friends and that they can help keep you accountable too, as well.

You know, so you don't lose that spark. You lose that fire because we know life happens and that could easily, you know. Happened right away, you know, but we want to make sure we tap into that. And my, my latest thing has been Legos.

[00:42:21] Joe: Oh, cool.

[00:42:22] Fonz: I love, absolutely love, love building Legos. Those are like my little projects that I have.

And, you know, I've got a huge wall and, uh, So even then, like for me, I, I find it just as a hobby. I mean, yeah, it's already like pre like, you already know what it's going to be, but just putting it together and just sitting there with your thoughts and just, it's very relaxing because then you also get some more creative thoughts too as well.

And so that's one of the things that I've been into as well, but, uh, you know, it's been great. And of course. Having wonderful, uh, people such as yourself, uh, and that I follow on Instagram and, you know, following each other and getting ideas or just feeling inspired or just, Hey, cheering each other on, you know, through the work that you're doing and that we're doing is something that's great.

And that's why I thank Claudio and Al Thomas and so many other people, Jesse also on, on Instagram and a lot of great people that are putting out some great stuff to help inspire many, many educators out there just in their personal creativity too, as well.

[00:43:26] Joe: Yeah, you know, it's, it's interesting. The, the social media piece.

So, you know, I mentioned I was so disconnected from it, um, purposefully, right, just cause I had to, um, but now like getting back into it, there's a whole community of people just like you out there and, you know, we can, a lot of people consume social media for funny stuff. I do too. It's, it's. There's so many good things out there, but like for a professional learning community, you could create your own and reach out to people and comment and they comment back and it's like people that you admire, um, maybe they, maybe they like what you're doing too.

And it's so interesting, like the conversations that happen there. So again, like, you know, uh, I'm an older guy. So for me, it's like tapping into that is, is very, has been very interesting. And it's been, um, You know, it's been eye opening. It's really cool. Like I have, I have a great group of people that I've been communicating with who are creators and kind of share different things.

So, you know, another thing I do is I have a cricket over there. So I've been making T shirts and like fun stuff like that. But they're communities for everything you want to learn. There are people out there who will gladly share what they know. So definitely like tap into other people to get that creative inspiration because it's out there.

You just have to, you just have to decide which direction you want to go. Do you want to consume only silly memes or do you want to learn some stuff? And I, I like a little bit of both, but mostly learning things. So it's kind of fun.

[00:44:53] Fonz: Yeah, absolutely. Well, Joe, it's been awesome having you on the show. I really appreciate it.

This is definitely a really a bucket filling conversation. Like I said, I just also being able to speak to you and just finding a lot of similarities in our stories and obviously too, in the classroom experience and then in the creative space is wonderful too. And it's a wonder that, you know, you're, you're putting out some great stuff and, you know, and it's a wonder that I follow you too, as well, because we've got a lot of things in common, but I really appreciate you just being here.

Being open, sincere, and genuine about your journey, you know, the, the creative components that played into your journey and how you now you're able to marry all of those wonderful worlds that you love together in one space, working for Adobe and going out and sharing that love of creativity and amplification of creativity with so many wonderful educators in New York.

So thank you so much for the work that you continue to do.

[00:45:49] Joe: And thank you for, thank you for having me. This has been great. It's, uh, this has sparked a lot of thought for me. So I'm sure a lot of creative ideas will come just from this conversation. And thank you for helping me tap into that creative outlet.

So I really appreciate it. It's been wonderful.

[00:46:04] Fonz: Awesome. Well, thank you. But before we wrap up, Joe, we always love to wrap up the show with the last three questions. And I know I sent those over. So hopefully you got to see a little bit of them and maybe, you know, we'll see what we can do. So it was, this is kind of like, not necessarily a quick fire, but you know, we always just end the show with these.

So here we go. Question number one, as we know, every superhero has a weakness or a pain point. So I want to ask you, Joe Santiago in the current state of education, do What would be your current pain point or like, I always like to call it, maybe your kryptonite at this time.

[00:46:42] Joe: Um, well, personal pain point is perfection.

Sometimes I want to be too perfect. Uh, I think current pain point in education is really, um, testing for kids. Like they, there's such an emphasis on testing, but not enough emphasis on total child. And I do understand the value of testing because. You know, you need metrics. However, there's a whole group of kids who don't, don't do well in that.

And because of those metrics, sometimes they're seen as less intelligent than others, where perhaps, you know, perhaps that's not the case at all. Maybe they're, they're very smart. They're just, uh, they haven't been given that opportunity to show that. So, you know, in our conversation here with creativity, that, that is kind of, you know, something that we need to figure out.

We need to do better with that. Yes. Measure students. We need to do that. Very important. Let's measure students in ways that all kids can really show what they know.

[00:47:47] Fonz: Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that. I know many years ago, there was a gentleman who said, um, I, when I worked in Arizona, I worked in Arizona for one year, he said, you know, I don't know what the expectation is from the state where they are providing a unimodal test or like a standardized test for, you know, just.

Students that learn in multi modal ways. I mean, it just kind of doesn't make sense, you know, and that. So I agree with you on that, too. I wish there were different ways to providing those metrics and showing learning like we talked about in the classroom, you know, with project based learning, you know, you can still see that there is mastery in, you know, the content based on, you know, different varieties of tools and presentations, you know, it doesn't always have to be just a through D, you know, so I agree with you on that.

[00:48:35] Joe: Always see.

[00:48:37] Fonz: That's what I have a great friend of mine. He's a math content specialist. He's, he always says, you know what guys, you don't know the answer. Just go see all the way down. You'll be fine. So question number two, Joe is if you could have a billboard with anything on it, what would it be? And why,

[00:48:56] Joe: if I could have a billboard with anything on it, what would it be?

I

don't know. I've the thing I see is just like a bunch of kids creating like, um, just again, like take, take that last statement about testing and like kids creating, but like, if we can have, if we can create such a billboard that would have such an impact on people to say, you know, Yes, we need to change that.

That would be that billboard, right? Showing like the benefits of all different, you know, careers. And, and I don't know, we, listen, we, we focus a lot on college, but, um, and, and I think, you know, for most people, it's the right thing to do. I have friends that are very successful. Without that, but we have a whole group of like vocations that need attending to, um, who are making wonderful livings.

I think we need to kind of, uh, advertise that like, Hey, there's so many different jobs out there for you. Um, and, and I think, you know, again, we need to do better at that. Like even at the high school level, show kids the different things. So my billboard would be like advocating, um, kind of a change in, in what we focus on for the future of children.

[00:50:13] Fonz: There you go. Sounds good, man. I love it. That's wonderful. Great. And it's a great message too, as well. All right. And then the last question, Joe, is there a, well, and maybe something different. I don't know. It may be, it may very well be the DJing or now it may have changed, but I always like to ask, is there a hobby or a favorite activity that you wish you can turn into a full time profession?

[00:50:37] Joe: Um, I mean, I honestly have so many, you know what I would do? Like if, if I. If I had to just drop everything, I would renovate houses. That's, that's what I would do. Yeah, I, I've done, I've been, I started doing that like 21 years old. Like, I, I love that.

[00:50:56] Fonz: That is awesome. I kind of figured that when you say you, you'd knock down some walls.

And I have zero

[00:51:01] Joe: problems. Like I would do that. Uh, if I knew that. You know, the, it, there, if there's a gamble there, right. When you start doing things like that, it could cost thousands and thousands of dollars in materials. Not even like a month. Right. So not even like, um, you know, the basics you're like, you just bought tiles, they cost you 20, 000.

So, so if I, if I knew like. Things would be okay with that. And I could survive really well. Uh, that would be the place I would go. I actually thought about it this morning.

[00:51:34] Fonz: Definitely. I can see that, you know, I, you never know, you know, it's never too late. Like we're talking about the creative process. It's never too late.

You know, I'll be on the lookout for the Joe Santiago renovation show.

[00:51:44] Both: You never know. We can do that. That's the thing. That might be a

[00:51:48] Fonz: thing that could be a thing and that that'd be amazing. So I could definitely see that. But Joe, again, thank you so much for spending, um, you know, your morning with me, sharing your story, uh, amplifying creativity and inspiring so many of our listeners that are going to be catching this episode.

So episode 284 of like, I love the way that you put it, you know, being able to chronicle and amplify stories that otherwise may have not had the opportunity to be heard. I, I'd never. Thought about it that way. So thank you so much for saying that.

[00:52:19] Joe: It is. It's you're, you're creating a library of stories, um, of educators.

That's that, that is, that's a story in itself, because if you think of COVID and beyond, right? Like that story has shifted, um, the way we talk about a lot of things and really like you are the time capsule in what you're doing, so, yeah. That is awesome. That's awesome.

[00:52:43] Fonz: Thank you so much. And for all our audience members, thank you so much as always for all of your support.

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