Episode 308: Jim & Maurie Beasley

Episode 308: Jim & Maurie Beasley AI Insights from an Engineer-Educator Duo

[00:00:30] Fonz: Hello everybody. And welcome to another great episode of my ed tech life.

[00:00:33] Fonz: Thank you so much for joining me on this wonderful day. And I am excited as always to just bring you an amazing show and some amazing guests this evening. But before we introduce our guests, I just definitely want to say thank you all for all of your support. Thank you as always for making my ed tech life, what it is today.

[00:00:52] Fonz: Thank you to. All our new YouTube followers were this close to getting to a thousand followers. So if you haven't done so yet, please make sure you jump over and give us a thumbs up. And thank you as always for all of your support, on social media and just really just sharing the content and just building up these great conversations.

[00:01:11] Fonz: And I'm really excited for you to join us. To welcome Jim and Maury Beasley to the show. Maury has been a previous guest and Jim is a first time guest, but they are an AI. I guess I could say nice power couple, and I'm just really excited to have them on the show. So Jim Maury, how are you doing this evening?

[00:01:34] Maurie & Jim: doing good. We went back to our, K 12 jobs this morning after being on holiday for a few weeks. So teachers start back tomorrow. Hit the ground running today.

[00:01:45] Fonz: Oh, that is excellent. Well, I just want to ask, so how long do you all get for your break?

[00:01:52] Maurie & Jim: Well, actually we get three weeks, here because we take that additional week because we have what they call stock shows. We had so many absenteeism rates were so high whenever the kids were doing stock show. So we'd go ahead and do three weeks at the holidays. Now we don't, we get two weeks, but teachers get three.

[00:02:13] Fonz: Okay. Excellent. Well, that's good to know. That's very interesting. Cause I think this is our first week back. Wait, no. Second week back. Yeah. Second week back. But I'm really excited to have you both here.

[00:02:23] Fonz: Like I said to everybody I know you were here during our AI panel discussion several episodes ago. And I know I've heard a lot of great things about Jim. Through you as well. And the passion that y'all have, especially the topic today that we're going to be discussing is really your experiences, your perspectives, your views on AI in education.

[00:02:43] Fonz: But before we dive in deep into that conversation, I would love to ask each one of you to give a brief introduction and what your context is in the education space. So Jim, I'll go ahead and start with you.

[00:02:57] Maurie & Jim: I'm actually an engineer by training. I have a degree in computer engineering from Texas A& M. University. I spent the first good chunk of my career designing hardware and software in the private sector. You know, works for companies like Dell, Motorola, people like that. I got into education. It's been almost 20 years.

[00:03:15] Maurie & Jim: I got into education as the technology director. I was actually only going to stay for two or three years. Mari and the superintendent at the time conspired to try to convince me to come fix everything. So I was basically, my goal was to fix all the problems that I could see.

[00:03:31] Maurie & Jim: And I figured three years would do it. I've been there for almost 20. So apparently I'm not very good at fixing the problems because they're still there. I can't seem to quite ever get it done, but I think that the goalpost keeps moving out. So been here a long time.

[00:03:45] Maurie & Jim: So I also was in the private sector for quite some time. I entered education in 2004. I entered in as a technology teacher. I ended up teaching elementary campus and then I taught a great maker space program, which was absolutely a blessing for a long time at a junior high. And then I decided to become a counselor.

[00:04:07] Maurie & Jim: So I got a master's in counseling and became a school counselor. And then I went ahead and became a principal. And then they convinced me to come back in the technology department a couple of years ago now. So that's what I do for education now. What I always tell people is that if you're in education, you're either going to have to sell Cincy candles or Mary Kay cosmetics, or, have, an Etsy store because you just don't make enough money in education.

[00:04:34] Maurie & Jim: So what Jim and I have done, I guess we're almost. Two and a half years now, as soon as AI came out, Jim is an early adopter for everything. And we immediately saw what this was going to do for education. And we started doing trainings. I mean, we wrote a book, K 12 education, AI, how it can impact our classrooms.

[00:04:57] Maurie & Jim: We were one of the first books ever published about AI and education because we could see the writing on the wall. So we've been doing trainings now for about two and a half years.

[00:05:06] Fonz: Excellent. Well, that is a great background. Just your experience in education, I mean, Jim almost 20 years in education. Like I said, also myself, this is my 18th year in education. Very much like you, Jim. I'm a transplant, you know, coming in from, you know, private sector and kept falling into education and then falling in love with it.

[00:05:23] Fonz: And 18 years later, here I am too, as well. And Maury, it's just great to hear you coming into education and now honing in on what you're seeing because of the experience that you have, I know that you have seen a lot being involved in the tech space and seeing everything that has come out and being early adopters.

[00:05:40] Fonz: That really is something that is, I think, an added bonus in that you're willing to go and try things and maybe even try and break them and see what will work, What will not work? So I just want to ask, and I guess I'll start with Jim here because I know you have that engineering background, but then I want to go and, and with Maury, just to see, my question is where, what was the particular moment when just this whole AI, just clicked the, that spark to know more about it?

[00:06:08] Fonz: Was this something that you had already been working on or familiar with in your engineering background, Jim, or is this something that came in a little later?

[00:06:16] Maurie & Jim: Well, I was familiar with machine learning, which is. Okay. What is the predecessor to it? I was familiar with AI at a kind of a root level, but about, I don't know, four years ago, I started what I called a smart campus, smart classroom program where my real goal was to create a really smart chat bot.

[00:06:36] Maurie & Jim: And I wanted that chat bot for new teachers, especially because I do a lot of new teacher training. I wanted to be able to bring them in, give them some basic training, but then have them. Utilize the chat bot to answer a lot of questions about our district specifically. This was pre ChatGPT, pre large language model that I was doing this.

[00:06:54] Maurie & Jim: I tried different tools. I tried to make it using built into Microsoft Teams. I tried building my own stuff. I tried different slack and all these others never could quite get it as intelligent as I wanted. And about that time, I got some early access to open a I chat to PT and I just dumped everything I was doing.

[00:07:14] Maurie & Jim: I was so amazed. Mario's gone through these phases with me where I discover new technology. And I get a little bit obsessed with it. I kind of have an obsessive personality a lot obsessed. I got a little crazy with it because I couldn't sleep. I spent so much time. I built the first chat bot a few months later.

[00:07:32] Maurie & Jim: Wasn't, I mean chat, GPT hadn't even been out that long and I created a chat bot, specifically using, you know, open AI in the backend. I was expecting this wildly enthusiastic, you know, group of people were gonna go, wow, this is the most awesome thing I've ever seen. I wanna use this. That is not the reception I got.

[00:07:53] Maurie & Jim: I got a me. You know, that's cool. And, you know, we, we did actually roll it out. We called it Agnes, we rolled it out at the school and there were some people that were using it. I just didn't get the kind of reception I was expecting. So, which is why we almost immediately wrote an article. Pardon my French, but it's called teachers are up to their ass and alligators, why they don't have time for AI.

[00:08:18] Maurie & Jim: And I was still, Just out of administration, whenever this happened, and he was like, so excited about the chat bot and everything. And I'm like, Jim, we have other issues in the classroom. We don't have time to even ask me. Let's talk bathroom breaks. Let's talk data analysis. Let's talk chronic absenteeism.

[00:08:41] Maurie & Jim: Let's talk language barriers. You know, so there's so many things that teachers are dealing with. I had to kind of explain to him. No, it is awesome, but you're going to have to show the teachers. exactly how it can help with those big pain points that we experience in the classroom. So that's why I think, I mean, we're, we're getting known as the educator and the engineer because he wants to over engineer everything.

[00:09:06] Maurie & Jim: And I'm like, but as an educator, if you'll just make it to where I can push this button and it'll do that. It's not called over engineering. It's called making it cool. Okay. He just wants to engineer things. And I'm just always saying, okay, yeah, that's awesome. But, yeah. It's the little things a lot of times that matter the most when it comes to being in the classroom.

[00:09:26] Fonz: Yeah, no, and I agree with that. And so I like the gym, what your attempt is and what it is still at this time. And I definitely feel you as somebody who is in a role as a digital learning coordinator in the classroom. Obviously there's always a new platform that we're going to be using, whether it's for, tier one instruction, tier two, and just starting off with something new.

[00:09:48] Fonz: You're never going to get a very warm reception. It's almost always like, Oh, great. Another thing I need to learn, and very much so the experiences like what Maury said, it's like, okay, it's another thing on my plate, but how is this going to fix the behavior? How is this going to do this?

[00:10:01] Fonz: And so on. So it almost feels like, Oh my gosh, all that work. And it just kind of to take a backseat to it. But I think it's something that it will slowly once teachers start seeing. And obviously I think that you guys do a fantastic job in really. Raising awareness and being able to do that training and working together in a district and teaming up like this is definitely something that is beneficial where you can get out more and just get, these experiences out more and explaining to teachers how this can do.

[00:10:31] Fonz: Because I think, very much like Maury, I think that teachers just need something that's going to keep it simple and streamlined. So I always tell my teachers, I'm trying to keep a kiss with you, but I mean, Keep it simple and streamlined. All right. So that's what they're kind of looking for, but I love the idea, Jim, that you had as far as being able in your position, I see our CTO every year at the beginning of the year, having to train new teachers, our curriculum department, having to train new teachers, and just to squeeze everything in into a four hour.

[00:11:03] Fonz: Or six hour session is overwhelming, especially for a new teacher and even anybody that comes in from another district. So to be able to have a great resource on hand, that really just covers everything procedurally, whether it's on the tech side. Whether it's on the curriculum side where teachers can go and ask questions and get their answers, I think is something that is fabulous.

[00:11:27] Fonz: So I want to ask as far as, the aha moments now that you're going out there and speaking and training a lot of other educators. It's been two years. So Maury, I'll start with you. What have been some of your aha moments that you've seen from teachers now? Do you see a little bit more, of those hold back teachers now saying, okay, I'm going to go ahead and dive in a little bit deeper now, or do you still see, a balance between the healthy skeptics and then just the ones that are, Hey, I'm all in.

[00:12:00] Fonz: What are you seeing out there through your experiences?

[00:12:03] Maurie & Jim: Honestly, I'm seeing more and more teachers that are using AI We have what we call our AI trailblazer program. We have like five or six teachers that I've adopted personally. And I go into their classroom at least once a week and Hey, they get these really cool t shirts, you know? And so, um, they are definitely using it and we're using Agnes with them to see what they're using it for.

[00:12:27] Maurie & Jim: And we can, adjust their tokens and things like that. But then when I go in and I talk to other teachers, a lot of them have the free OpenAI accounts and they are using it to help them enhance specific lesson ideas to help them with. The main thing is engagement. Like how can I engage a 12 year old that is only engaged by social media and games?

[00:12:53] Maurie & Jim: How, how do I do this? Help me. So I am seeing teachers I think are a lot less cynical when it comes to teaching Concerning it. I think it's our administrators that are starting to hold us back. Now. I'm seeing more and more how the administrators, especially the ones who haven't been in the classrooms the last few years, they're a little further removed from the classroom.

[00:13:15] Maurie & Jim: They're being a lot more. Oh, no, no, no, we don't want to do this. We don't want to use AI we don't want to, you know, we don't want to open that can of worms. So I'm thinking that that's kind of where the bottleneck is happening now. Now, the aha moments, the ones that are skeptical. I have found that the number one way to get them to use artificial intelligence is to show them that it's not something you have to be trained on.

[00:13:40] Maurie & Jim: It's not something you have to go and take X number of trainings and get the stickers to put on the outside of your doors saying that you're level one or level two. You literally. Ask a question and you'll get an answer. Might not be a great answer because maybe you're not trained on how to prompt it the best way, but you're still going to get an answer.

[00:14:01] Maurie & Jim: And guess what? Then you can go back and ask it again and ask it again and ask it again until you get out of it what you want. So there is no training required. So I think that's helping the skeptics kind of get over that.

[00:14:14] Fonz: And that's great. Like I said, it's all about removing barriers. And I think, you know, for these last two years and even myself, you know, like I always stated, like I was all in, then I did my research paper and then I'm like, okay, I try and be in the middle. And then all of a sudden it's like, I'll see the news and I'm like, oh my gosh, like, okay, I need to slow down a little bit more, but then I see the news again.

[00:14:35] Fonz: It was like, okay, things are going well. And it's almost like I'm back and forth and just trying to find that balance too, because I definitely want to do my due diligence and help teachers out. And really, again, it's just feeling safe enough and comfortable enough to remove those barriers where they feel, excited, or they just feel like, okay, we're Cool.

[00:14:53] Fonz: I can do this and there's, it's really something minimal that, like you mentioned, I don't have to add something else to my plate and do another extra PD that's just going to add this. And just to be able to go in and start using immediately and practicing, like what you said with Agnes and other things that you have built and through your PD, I think that's fantastic.

[00:15:12] Fonz: Now I do want to touch on something here and maybe, I want to get Jim's perspective on this because Maury, you mentioned, you know, obviously there's going to be roadblocks along the way, as far as integration is concerned, whether it's one department, several departments, or just specific admin. So Jim, on your side, being a CTO and maybe being in these meetings, what are some of the things that, the administrators, your colleagues specifically are still just concerned about?

[00:15:40] Fonz: Is it more the data privacy aspect? Is it more that they themselves don't feel comfortable, you know? So from the CTO perspective, what are you seeing?

[00:15:51] Maurie & Jim: I would say more, if I was going to put my finger on one of them, I would say it's their own lack of. Understanding it. You know, we are afraid of what we don't understand. I think their, their lack of understanding of it and their desire being, they get a lot of pressure, you know, especially in Texas, it's all about test scores.

[00:16:10] Maurie & Jim: And so they get a lot of pressure and they get graded on particular things. We've got a huge amount of behavioral issues. You know, we go to the admin meetings, which we have once a month. When I go to the administration meetings with the superintendent and all that other stuff, the conversations are always.

[00:16:25] Maurie & Jim: Have something to do with some kind of behavioral issue or some kind of other maybe political issue or whatever that's going on in the world. We don't have a lot of time to spend talking about this. I mean, when Mari and I first introduced. It's been almost two years. We did our first training, in early 2023 for our administration, you know, right after chat GPT had only been on a couple of months and we showed them what it was capable of.

[00:16:50] Maurie & Jim: And they had, we had just done a bond at the time and they had spent money getting people to write the bond proposal or, you know, the bond description, you know, the kind of the stuff you put in newspapers. And Maurice was in the meeting with me and she took their description, put it into chat GPT and it wrote it.

[00:17:08] Maurie & Jim: In three seconds. And this was early chat GPT. And they were like, Oh my God, we spent like five grand getting advertising stuff written that you guys just did in five seconds. So at that time we thought we got them, you know, we got them. And some of them, some of the administrators use it, but a lot of it, it's just kind of drifted off to the side because in their day to day life, it just doesn't meet the bar to get their attention whenever they've got, you know, Parents screaming at them or test scores, you know, or a particular campus with test scores that aren't as good as they should be.

[00:17:42] Maurie & Jim: I just, I think it's, you know, Fear of the unknown. What are your pillars though? When you talk about as a, as a CTO, I look at, you know, reliability cost and maintainability. And if I was going to have one more in there, it would probably have to do with, with privacy as well. But, I'm the most concerned. I mean, it sounds weird, but as a CTO, I don't have time to put another tool in that's unreliable.

[00:18:08] Maurie & Jim: And reliability means that different things to different people, but to me, it means whenever they go to use it, it works. And so I look at, I evaluate the tools based on that. And one of the reasons I did some stuff on my own and I still do stuff on mine is because I have no control over those things. If I just rely on chat GPT or one of these, these rapper tools that, you know, kind of wrap these large language models in a set of, forms that you can fill out to get the So I look at those is what's important to me personally.

[00:18:38] Maurie & Jim: And then as me, as an administrator, when I talk to other CTOs, other tech directors, they pretty much have the same priorities I do. They don't want to put something unstable or something that's, you know, what's the value at for me if I don't put this in and all it's going to do is give me a headache and nobody's really asking for it.

[00:18:53] Maurie & Jim: Then why do I care?

[00:18:55] Fonz: Yeah, Jim, one thing that I do want to add and Maury to, I mean, uh, I've been at those meetings where. All of a sudden it's like, Oh, you're trying to do something. And I've already done it for you in three seconds or so sharing with them, you know, what can happen and they get really excited and they're like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing.

[00:19:11] Fonz: But then immediately, like you said, Jim, it's like never fails. And this is something in a pattern that I have seen, not just with this, but really with all tech, I mean, anytime there's tech involved, whether it's a new platform or, you know, right now, the main concern is like, okay, how are we going to sustain our one to ones, you know, with Chromebooks when we don't have any funding.

[00:19:32] Fonz: What's the next step. And then like, you're talking about behavior. You're talking about now, January star season is here. That's the main focus right now. And then it's like, okay, now we got into that summer slump or spring slump of, this is going to fall on the wayside. So now we're able to have a conversation, possibly in the summer, and then just get this really nice boost maybe in the fall.

[00:19:55] Fonz: And then come January again, there's that lull. Yeah. Because of star and it, but it, like I mentioned, it's that pattern that I've seen throughout my, well, 18 years in education, eight years in this role. There's always that pattern because again, many principals, many administrators are focused on. The scores, because of course the ratings and then with ratings comes more funding and so on.

[00:20:19] Fonz: So it's something that definitely there is going to have to be some legwork that needs to put in. But again, at least the fact that your district has two of you there and Starting off small, even if it's just like you said, and more, you've adopted those five teachers to be able to work with them, then they can be your, you know, AI evangelists to start sharing with other people on campuses.

[00:20:43] Fonz: And it just starts off small. And I think sometimes, and I'll be honest with myself, and then I'm just speaking for myself. Sometimes I get too excited and I just want this to work and turn it around from one day to the next and everybody's using it, but then I'll never forget. And I always give her credit.

[00:21:00] Fonz: Renee Dawson always said, she said at the one show that she was on, she said, funds there in every district and in every training. You're always going to have your speed boats, your tugboats and your anchors. She goes, you know, speed boats, you show them a little bit. They know how to connect it. They connect the dots and they're like, Hey, I'm ready to go, go, go.

[00:21:21] Fonz: They're going to take off on their own. And then you've got your tugboats that a little bit more kind of. Let me try it out, wait and see. But once they get that going, they're able to help the anchors, you know, to be able to kind of say, Hey, let's, let's move through this together and so on. So that's one thing that I've had to learn.

[00:21:38] Fonz: And in these 18 years, it's just really having that patience and just continually and being consistent. With the trainings and just being consistent with those teachers. I think that that'll definitely make a big difference. And before you know it, you'll be thinking like, wow, you know, this is amazing.

[00:21:55] Fonz: As long as you keep it simple and streamlined, I think teachers will definitely buy in with that for sure.

[00:22:00] Maurie & Jim: well, I think one of the things that we did, the A. I. Trailblazer program, I was very strategic as to the teachers that I got on the program because we chose, immediately four teachers, two from fourth grade, one from fifth grade, which are testing grade levels, to math to E. L. A. R. And, I'm monitoring their test scores.

[00:22:24] Maurie & Jim: I'm monitoring what their classrooms are doing from their beginning of the year, middle of the year, end of the year, benchmarks. And if I can show how using A. I. to enhance these lessons to get this additional activity to do these center ideas to do, you know, all the little things that we're using AI for, if I can show that their test scores are just a little bit better than the ones that we did not adopt, that's how I'm thinking I'm going to get more administrative buy in for us to start utilizing more AI.

[00:22:54] Maurie & Jim: So I'm very curious to see, cause I did pick our lowest performing. campus. It's funny because when I first got there, there wasn't a lot of technology at Llano ISD when I first got there. There was some, but it was kind of not very well done.

[00:23:08] Maurie & Jim: And Mari was in the technology department with me when I first got there for a while. And we started an adopt a classroom program even back then. And we were going to put this new technology and it was interactive tools, things like that in the classrooms. And we had an open house for the teachers to show it to them.

[00:23:26] Maurie & Jim: We had one person show up in the whole district. One, we had teachers that walked by, looked in the door, didn't even come in. Within six months later of the time, we had the technology in every single classroom in the district because a few teachers started getting excited about it. And then the superintendent, and then the school board got wind of it.

[00:23:48] Maurie & Jim: And they literally came to me and said, we want this in every classroom. How much is it going to cost? Okay. This may be a little bit slower, but we're hoping to roll this out access to this because of the cost saving measures by doing some of the stuff ourselves. We're hoping that we can roll this out to the entire district in the fall.

[00:24:06] Maurie & Jim: Now we've had these Agnes has been available to the whole district for a while, but in a different form, we've revamped it into a different format. that we're seeing a lot better response to and a lot better cost control measures. Cost control measures are amazing. I mean, so if you go out and you purchase a wrapper program, it's subscription based.

[00:24:28] Maurie & Jim: So you base the cost based on your enrollments and at your school. And then we know that about 30 percent of teachers are using AI fairly actively now. And I mean, that's like the latest data from like ed tech or something like that. Um, So I'm paying for all of these teachers who never even log in. And so your cost return on your investment from a technology department standpoint is very, very low versus with our solution.

[00:24:59] Maurie & Jim: You only pay for the tokens it's through an API and we have not just. OpenAI is one of the large language models, but we also have LLAMA3. We have local models. We have local models. And so that stuff can do basic things and it's free. And so I think we've had six people using it every single day.

[00:25:22] Maurie & Jim: Since August and the district has spent a little over 20.

[00:25:27] Fonz: That is fantastic. And, you know, that kind of brings me to my next question. You know, as far as cost and you were talking just my language, because this is what I deal with too, as well. It's just a return on investment. I'm getting platforms, always checking the data, checking the usage. And like you said, many times it's like we purchased something that a subset of teachers want and is fantastic.

[00:25:50] Fonz: And they're, they're like successful with it, but that tool doesn't mean that every teacher is going to be successful with it because it may not work also for the type of class that they may have or different class makeup. So that puts us in a difficult situation. Where now it's like, Hey, you know what, we had this, the data wasn't there.

[00:26:09] Fonz: That's not going to be something feasible for us to purchase. But, one of the things that my, my concern is though, because also because of funding, I don't know, I'm not sure how big is your school district.

[00:26:20] Maurie & Jim: We have about 2000 students. So we are rule. We are a rural district. And so our funding is really low. I mean, literally, in the last 20 years, our technology budget has not increased. In 20 years,

[00:26:33] Fonz: Yeah. And that's because I come from a school we've got, or a district where that's almost at 10, 000, but man, we see like this huge, we're in between two other school districts and we're kind of like landlocked there. But we see like the funding that is available in our neighboring districts, and then we can't get a lot of the great things.

[00:26:55] Fonz: And this, to me, the scary part is too, even with, because of the funding is concerned, even a lot of the apps that we use on the daily, that we have been using. Consistent with even prior to COVID that teachers use up a lot, we're, we're getting to the point where we're nearly getting priced out because they're going up anywhere from eight to 11 percent per year.

[00:27:18] Fonz: And now the conversation is going to be like, Oh my gosh, what are we going to do? Because if we lose this. You know, we're going to have a lot of unhappy teachers district wide because of the usage. And so what I love that you're saying is in being able to create this in house, and then just the cost that you have said, you know, where teachers are using it, every day, 

[00:27:39] Fonz: Now I want to ask, just because I know it's 2000 students and I'm not sure how many teachers, but even if you were to max out on this, Jim, and you had all your teachers using this on the daily, what would you say would be like, let's say a yearly budget for that or the usage of, um, you know, the, the bot that you're using.

[00:28:02] Maurie & Jim: it's a good question. We have 200 240 40 teachers I think and I have to do the math which I haven't done yet But if you think about it if i've got five teachers and one tech person using it almost daily so if you extrapolate that out to 200 teachers, then Even if it goes up, I would be surprised if I use more than 200 a month.

[00:28:28] Maurie & Jim: Honestly, I would be because it's not just about We're building a hybrid model. And when you think about it, most businesses now have, they spent a long time moving everything into the cloud.

[00:28:43] Maurie & Jim: Well, the problem with moving in the cloud, you have no control over costs over time and you get stuck in there and you can't get it out. Or then you have people that are trying to do things completely locally. So a lot of companies now started bringing things down and doing a hybrid model, which they use some cloud, some local, that's the model we're looking at.

[00:28:58] Maurie & Jim: So that way I have the ability, not only if my costs start going up, I think I can keep them fairly flat. Because certain features as these local models get better and the equipment gets better than I'm putting them on, then I can keep putting the teachers to smarties training the teachers. 

[00:29:14] Maurie & Jim: Here's what they do. So like our teachers will use this model because it costs less. We're also adding a token counter. We're trying to add a fuel gauge to it, which basically says here's your monthly fuel gauge. And when you hit zero, your local model only right. And we can also assign the tokens to the teacher.

[00:29:33] Maurie & Jim: So, like, if I have a teacher, that's a super user and I have one that doesn't use it except for maybe emails, then that teacher doesn't get as many tokens. And that teacher might not get access to the largest or the best paid for version because they're never going to use it for graphics anyway. And so, It's that control that Agnes is giving into our district that I think is, is a game changer in the technology department.

[00:29:56] Maurie & Jim: It is for us. And, you know, we're utilizing as many as we can, the open source tools that are out there. And then we're wrapping, I mentioned that maintainability, reliability, all that stuff. We're building our own wrappers around that. So I can install it, I can upgrade it, I can back it up, I can do all the things you have to do.

[00:30:13] Maurie & Jim: That's the pieces we're adding to it ourselves. Versus trying to use somebody else's so we can see everything that the teacher is doing and they know that. So if I ever get like a PIA request, I mean, in the future, I can see how PIA is you're going to have to. They're going to say, well, we want to have everything that was asked to a large language model also.

[00:30:31] Maurie & Jim: And so we can view everything that the teacher is doing. We also have a little playground. That's part of it. So, like, When notebook L. M. came out and it was such a huge thing, we immediately put a link to notebook L. M. and our teacher playground. And then I let all the teachers know that it was there so that they could go play with it for free and then give us feedback on if it's worth us trying to add an A.

[00:30:54] Maurie & Jim: P. I. For notebook L. M. So is that that feedback that we're getting from teachers? I think is going to be huge to you.

[00:31:02] Fonz: That is fantastic. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, Jim, even just like you mentioned, just by that extensive usage that's way cheaper than, you know, just the type of licensing that I have seen. From a lot of these applications that are out there, which it's to me, it's like, man, our district would be left out of being able to use any of this because we don't have the funding for it.

[00:31:25] Fonz: And then, of course, at that time, the students won't be able to have access to it and things of that sort. So, I mean, just the way that you. Like right now I'm just in my mind. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, just the potential there and everything that you're doing for your district is just really above and beyond like anything that I've heard of.

[00:31:44] Fonz: And I think that that is fantastic. Just really, you know, boots to the ground. Let's, Figure it out and getting, keeping those costs, that costs low, but introducing teachers to it very slowly. But it's, it's yours. It's built specifically for your district. And I think that that is wonderful too, 

[00:32:02] Fonz: maury, I kind of want to switch over now a little bit. I want to know, cause I know you had posted, something earlier on LinkedIn. I think it was at a conference, but you, you mentioned, The Austin AI Alliance. So tell me a little bit about that, because I hear that you're a board member of the Austin AI Allowance Alliance, excuse me.

[00:32:19] Fonz: So tell us what the Alliance is, what it does, and how did you link up with the Alliance?

[00:32:26] Maurie & Jim: Tell him how you heard about it. Well, yeah, actually, Jim was at a, like, was it a data science meeting or something? No, it was at a conference here in Austin about it as an AI conference. Right. And he met the person that started the alliance. And this person is like a physicist and an astronomer.

[00:32:44] Maurie & Jim: And he's like used to work. He set up U center and work. He set up UT supercomputer. Center. And basically the Austin Alliance is a group of people. We have members. We have University of Texas is a member. Texas State University is a member. IBM, we have several large corporations that are members and we are there for the ethical and safe.

[00:33:10] Maurie & Jim: Adoption of artificial intelligence. We are based out of Austin. We do the 10 surrounding counties. It's called Capcog. So if you're part of one of the Capcog counties, you can become a member of the AI Alliance. We are doing policy at the Capitol, helping them with, with like pushing and trying to get legislative backing for certain policies.

[00:33:32] Maurie & Jim: We are doing education, not just into workforce, but into a K 16 education. I got involved because I want to make sure that K 12 doesn't get left out. Because I think I am the only representative for K 12 education at the Austin AI Alliance right now. And the reason I became so passionate about it is specifically because of the policies that we're trying to help get put through at a government level.

[00:34:01] Maurie & Jim: K 12 is where it starts. And especially with the digital divide, or as I call it, the opportunity divide, if the rule American schools don't have something put in policy to where we have to give access to every student. Then we're going to continue to exacerbate this divide 

[00:34:23] Maurie & Jim: I was in one of my fifth grade classrooms and a kid walks up to me and he was like, Miss Beasley, look, I've got chat GPT on my phone and he had a paid for subscription to chat GPT at the age of what, 10 or 11. Because his dad was an engineer that drives back and forth to Austin two days a week and knows how important this is.

[00:34:46] Maurie & Jim: So already this fifth grade student has a leg up over all the other kids in his classroom. So if K 12 education isn't exposing the students to AI and what AI is and giving them access, to AI in a safe environment, they are going to continue to get left behind in rural America. The have and the have nots are going to continue to

[00:35:07] Fonz: Yeah.

[00:35:08] Maurie & Jim: have this huge

[00:35:09] Fonz: No, absolutely. And that goes back to also, like I was saying, like being priced out of certain opportunities, because again, due to funding, it's like, you know, what fault is it of the school because of the funding? I mean, and the enrollment, like things that you can't control. But yet, you know, we're affected or affected, you know, our funding in that sense.

[00:35:28] Fonz: creates that gap. And even within our district, the North side and the South side, visibly, you know, there's also a gap there too, as well. So it's so many variables that play into a school district. But like you said, if we don't, if we're not responsible enough to make sure, That we do have that access and we're able to expose the students to it.

[00:35:49] Fonz: And in a healthy and an ethical way where they learn about it, the ins and outs, and of course how to use it appropriately and properly. I mean, it just really, like you said, it is going to widen that gap even more. And it's, I would hate for that to happen as it is even just with physical devices, Jim, I don't know what your experience is, but like I mentioned to you, you know, just even sustainability.

[00:36:10] Fonz: When you look at it whole, it's a lot of variables and it's a lot of challenges and you can't take it home if you can't take it home. And we're trying to make sure that we're sustaining a one to one program has been very difficult. We're now having to get districts are having to get very creative in the ways that do things instead of, Hey, not everybody gets to take it home.

[00:36:22] Fonz: K through six. It it's your one to one, but it stays at school. You can't take anything home. Well, what if the other students have access at home except this one student and they're able to do what they need to do? You know again lots of variables there

[00:36:37] Maurie & Jim: We actually repair Chromebooks in house. We do exactly what you just said, only certain grade levels, mainly high school now gets to take it home. But we also, you know, we looked at this whole idea because they all want to sell you a Chromebook with insurance, which I cannot afford.

[00:36:52] Maurie & Jim: So we have, I have three techs that are all senior techs that have been with me for over a decade and they can repair a Chromebook in 10 minutes. I mean, they can strip that thing and put it back together, fixed and back on a campus in half an hour. If I didn't have that. Then the program wouldn't be as successful, but I couldn't afford to do it if I had to pay for it.

[00:37:15] Fonz: Yep. 

[00:37:16] Maurie & Jim: So i'm on board everything you've said so far even the pricing out thing I was just sitting here thinking in my head because When I first got there, when Mari and I did our first budget, about 12 percent of our budget was software services, software services, online stuff. Right now, when Mari does our budget, it's over 50%.

[00:37:35] Maurie & Jim: So it's getting hard for me to keep a hardware going because I'm spending so much money on online tools. So we've had to go back and do what you were talking about. We've had to reassess how many people are using it, and I have canceled programs. And I'll tell you, I almost got burned at the stake for a couple of those things.

[00:37:52] Maurie & Jim: I canceled a video on demand one, and the hostility was palatable when I was in the meeting when I told them we were canceling. But, There's only 10 teachers using that. Our cost per teacher is too high. It's tricky. So yeah, we're fighting the same battle, you and

[00:38:07] Fonz: yeah, I definitely, agree with you and it's interesting cause I see, because of my job and my experience too, it's almost like I'm kind of like a hybrid of you. Like Jim, I see your side too. And Maury, I see your side too very well. And so I really love that, but let's go ahead and, switch gears a little bit 

[00:38:23] Fonz: because. I know that the conversation doesn't stop here as far as AI is concerned, because you guys also have a podcast that you guys put out. And I, that, what I loved is that you did kind of change it up a little bit, you know, seeing some of the videos and I love the way that you do it. I mean, such a great little, Couple that is just having a great conversation, just letting us into your world, into the living room and seeing y'all cozied up and just having a great conversation about AI.

[00:38:52] Fonz: So, Jim, tell me a little bit about the podcast and how it first started. And then Maury, we'll go on to you.

[00:38:58] Maurie & Jim: Well, the story that Marty's going to tell you, which accurate, I have an obsessive personality, engineering. I got a little enthusiastic for several months, almost a year. I couldn't, I was waking up at four in the morning and I used to sit in the bedroom and wait for her to wake up because I wanted to tell her about this new thing.

[00:39:15] Maurie & Jim: It was exciting. I want to show you this. And it's kind of creepy. We have a rocking chair in our room and I was sitting there. So finally she made a rule, no talking until I've had my first cup of coffee about artificial intelligence. Well, then she decided she needed a funnel before I exploded with this new information.

[00:39:33] Maurie & Jim: I needed a funnel. The podcast was the funnel. It was a way of getting to Tell her what I had discovered. You know, don't, don't let her kid you. She is a technical person. Yes. She's an education. She used to have her own tech networking company. So she doesn't know the technology, but she's just not quite as obsessive about it.

[00:39:52] Maurie & Jim: And wanting to talk about it 24 seven, those are two different things. Okay. So yes, we do talk about AI all the time, but, That 30 minutes on Sunday evenings is when I'm like, okay, Jim, put it all in obsidian, which is what he uses. And I will give you my undivided attention for 30 minutes. I still have to make dinner.

[00:40:18] Maurie & Jim: I still have to, you know, do my day job. I still have to do AI Alliance stuff. So I give him. 30 minutes of uninterrupted time so he can do a core dump and get it all up in 30 minutes. Though I

[00:40:33] Fonz: I

[00:40:34] Maurie & Jim: have to increase our time.

[00:40:37] Fonz: You might have to throw in an extra 15 and just make it a 45. And then after it's like, okay, you know, let's just continue it on. 

[00:40:44] Maurie & Jim: I've gone over the last two podcasts by a few minutes because there's just a lot of cool stuff out there and I I don't have a lot of people to talk to about it. So. I'd like to talk to her about it. I need more people to talk to about it. I need to, I need to have a little club that I'm a member of so I can stop driving her crazy, I guess.

[00:41:01] Fonz: Yes. 

[00:41:02] Maurie & Jim: AI in action.

[00:41:04] Fonz: yeah, we should start a, like a, discord or a slack or something just for, for the group and share stuff there, Jim. That'd be great. All right. So Maury, you were telling us, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off, but, uh, AI in action is the name of the podcast and where can all our audience members go and catch the episodes and listen to them and view them.

[00:41:25] Maurie & Jim: Well, of course we're on Spotify and, I think you can get on Amazon and you can always access it on our website, which is www. aiedpro. com. It's always on our website. The videos, which finally, it was actually our youngest son's girlfriend. He was like. You guys have to start putting the video out there.

[00:41:51] Maurie & Jim: And I don't like seeing myself on camera. So it was really like something I really didn't want to do. But then I was like, okay, I'm going to embrace my, my age and just, just do it. So we were just now videoing and that's on our YouTube channel. So AI Ed Pro has a YouTube channel and that's where you can go get the videos.

[00:42:09] Maurie & Jim: Um, it's also an Apple podcast. So really you just, you can just Google AI in action, Mari and Jim Beasley. Uh, the official name is AI in Action Exploring Tomorrow's Tech Today. That's the official name. It also gives me a chance to rant about some of the unfunded mandates, inadequacies in education. I do tend to get off on rants occasionally about, um, the way education has been viewed.

[00:42:36] Maurie & Jim: I come from a small town here, and when I was growing up here in Llano, Education was the most important, the whole town was all about education, you know, at every level, whether you're the poorest person or you're the wealthiest person in town, the school was important. It doesn't feel like that anymore, and I think a lot of that's being driven from the politics of where we are, and it saddens me, so I get on these rants every once in a while about that, that are not AI.

[00:43:03] Maurie & Jim: Related, but I try to stay with it. I have to pull him back. I have to pull him back from the edge. I'm not a politician, so I don't say things the way they're supposed to be said for politics. So she pulls me back in every once in a while and tells me to, you know, bring it back in. We're getting carried away.

[00:43:18] Maurie & Jim: Yeah. We're going to get censored. We're going to get censored. It's going to be unhappy.

[00:43:22] Fonz: hey, sometimes you just need that outlet, Jim, but thank you guys. Thank you guys so much for, you know, just sharing a little bit of your evening with me today and your time and just your experiences and, you know, everything that you've seen in the last two years and just really that passion y'all have in education for, in general, you know, just to wanting to make it better.

[00:43:40] Fonz: And so that's what it's all about. And just having conversations here in my ed tech life. So thank you so much, Maury, for coming back, Jim. It's great to have you as a first time guest also as well. And I think this is great. You know, just having you both here as a couple sharing your experiences. I know I have learned a lot.

[00:43:58] Fonz: Today, and I know our audience members will definitely gonna find a lot of knowledge nuggets that they can use to sprinkle onto what they are already doing. Great. But before we wrap up, I hope that you guys listened to, or actually read the calendar invite. I know I always love to end the show with these last three questions.

[00:44:16] Fonz: And, um, I don't, I don't know if I got to do it with Maury when she was here in the panel, because I think that would have run too long with all the guests. But hopefully you guys are ready and you did get check those out. So Maury, I'm going to start with you first. As we know, every superhero has a weakness or a pain point.

[00:44:33] Fonz: So I want to ask you in the current state of education, what would you say is your current edu kryptonite?

[00:44:43] Maurie & Jim: Uh, I think it's a little bit of a difference in a weakness and a pain point. So I'm just going to kind of focus on the pain point. And right now I would have to say that my pain point is administration that is wanting to not look to the future and that are trying to set policy based on things that have happened in the past.

[00:45:06] Fonz: Okay. I like that.

[00:45:08] Maurie & Jim: our policy moving forward because of artificial intelligence, we're going to have to take some guesses and actually create policy for the possibility and not policy for the past.

[00:45:19] Fonz: I love that policy for the possibility. That is going to be a nice soundbite there, Maury. All right, Jim, how

[00:45:26] Maurie & Jim: I come up with that.

[00:45:28] Fonz: there you go.

[00:45:29] Maurie & Jim: That was that was human right

[00:45:31] Fonz: That was that was I loved it. Jim. How about yourself? What would you say is your current edu kryptonite?

[00:45:38] Maurie & Jim: Well, mine is based on the fact that I'm not in this for the money. If I wanted money, I would have stayed in the private sector because I took a huge pay cut when I came to the education space. So my, the biggest problem I have right now is the negativity. I do this because I'm passionate about it and I want to share that passion and have other people share that passion with me.

[00:46:01] Maurie & Jim: And it's difficult for me to watch people talk the way they do about education. It spends so much energy. It feels like trying to hamstring education here. We're trying to to make sure our kids are the most competitive kids in the world against all the other countries. And yet we, we seem like we're not willing to invest the time and energy emotionally and fiscally into making that happen.

[00:46:27] Fonz: another great sound bite Emotionally and fiscally. Oh, that is great. I love that. All right question number two We're gonna start off with you Jim question number two if you could have a billboard with anything on it What would it be and why?

[00:46:44] Maurie & Jim: I want to billboard right outside of Sam Altman's office at OpenAI with my phone number on it. And I'm just gonna put my phone number because I'm hoping I'll get curious enough to call me because I got some stuff. I want to talk to open AI about about some educational perspective, and I don't think I've got a shot at talking to him otherwise.

[00:47:01] Maurie & Jim: So maybe if I if it was right outside his office window, maybe one day you get curious to just call that number. Then I could have a chat because I'd really like to talk to Sam.

[00:47:10] Fonz: That is very, I love that answer. All right. Maury, how about yourself? What would your billboard say?

[00:47:16] Maurie & Jim: All right. So, you know, coming from a counseling standpoint, which that that's my love language, um, having counseling, it would have to be something along the lines of education is the only way out something to catch attention to kind of like paint the message that. You only get better if you actually get better at something.

[00:47:44] Maurie & Jim: So it would have to be, be something along those lines. Education is the key, you know, because, and it starts with the adults. I mean, the adults, Going down to the kids, it starts at home, and then you can't take away your K 12 educators. You can't take away that connection that they have with your students.

[00:48:06] Maurie & Jim: Your billboard's got too much on it. Oh, sorry. Okay. Education is the only way out. 

[00:48:12] Fonz: I love that, Jim. Well, we'll just make it like kind of like those new digital ones that don't have a slideshow. So it's okay. Maury, don't, don't worry, Maury. I got you taken care of. We'll just

[00:48:21] Maurie & Jim: going to have

[00:48:22] Fonz: multiple pages.

[00:48:23] Maurie & Jim: road and have to read it as it goes by though, it's going to take three or four screens. They're just going to keep driving by every day, a different message every day. A little different

[00:48:30] Fonz: All right, so here we go. Last question. All right. And Maury, I'll start with you. If you can switch places with one person for a day, who would it be and why? And it could be living and nonliving.

[00:48:45] Maurie & Jim: Honestly, I would want to change places with the governor of Texas. I would want to be the governor of Texas for a day because I would want to appoint people to this AI committee task force or whatever it is that he's come up with that actually not only understand what AI actually is, um, and also understand it from an educational standpoint, like what we have to do in education.

[00:49:17] Maurie & Jim: I want people at the table that actually know what the heck they're doing. and not someone who's at the table because they play golf with somebody else.

[00:49:26] Fonz: Nice. I like that. That, that sounds like a great billboard too. All right, Jim, last question for you then also, who is one person that you would love to switch places with for a day and why?

[00:49:39] Maurie & Jim: Me and Sam, we're back to Sam again. Me and Sam, we're going to swap places for a day because I love what OpenAI and Chad Jupiter's done. I mean, they brought a level of awareness of AI, which has been around for a long time, and they've made it usable. But right now they're very, very focused on how do we get to AGI and how do we make, you know, the, AI smarter, but again, back to us, education folks.

[00:50:06] Maurie & Jim: Again, we need the tools in place to allow us to utilize it effectively. And I can tell them exactly how I think that should happen because. I, we had a two hour meeting with teachers today where we talked about this exact topic. So I've got some pretty good ideas, but I don't have the resources. I can't do it all myself.

[00:50:28] Maurie & Jim: I don't have the resources. He's got a lot of resources. So if I could just get in there for a day and maybe start some of those projects rolling, you know, I've, I've tried to contact Intel. I've tried to contact AMD. I've tried to, you know, you have contact. We've had large conversations with them and they just don't take the next step, see the value.

[00:50:47] Maurie & Jim: that K 12 brings. You're training tomorrow. I mean, these kids, we get them exposed, get them excited. It doesn't matter if it's a little bit rough around the edges. What matters is that they get to get in there and, and move it a new direction that we're, as adults, we're not even going to think of, but if they don't get exposed to it, they're not ever, what are we going to miss when that kid That kid in the small town never has access to this particular tool.

[00:51:11] Maurie & Jim: So if I could get it, if I could swap with Sam for a day, maybe I could get something going that would just build a little momentum. So I want to billboard outside his office and I want to swap in his desk for a day and I'm good.

[00:51:20] Fonz: Perfect. That is wonderful. Well, thank you, Jim. Maury. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Just for just being so genuine and authentic and just sharing your, your vision. Yeah. Your passion with my audience today. I am really thankful. And like I said, uh, this definitely, the conversation definitely filled my bucket today, and I'm really excited for what is coming and really excited to hear also, you know, within the next couple of months, you know, uh, the great things that you guys will be doing.

[00:51:46] Fonz: So you guys definitely have an open invite when you guys come back, maybe we'll revisit at the end of the year, see how everything went and what the future plans are for both of you. But thank you for what you are doing. For our educators, thank you for what you are doing for our students there in your school district.

[00:52:03] Fonz: It, you know, you, they are definitely blessed to have both of you there. So keep up the great work, stay encouraged and keep doing what you're doing because you are making a difference. And for all our audience members, thank you as always for joining us. We appreciate all the likes, the shares, the follows.

[00:52:17] Fonz: Thank you so much For all of your support and all the love that you have given the show over these 308 episodes. So please make sure that you visit our website at my ed dot life, where you can check out this amazing episode and the other 307 wonderful episodes, where I promise you, you will find a little something that you will love.

[00:52:34] Fonz: Just for you, a little knowledge nugget that you can sprinkle on to what you are already doing. Great. So visit our website. And again, if over to our YouTube channel, give us a thumbs up and subscribe. We're this close to a thousand subscribers and maybe you could be that thousand subscriber and that would be fantastic.

[00:52:51] Fonz: So we're definitely trying to continue to help to grow the show and just to bring these conversations to more people. So thank you as always for all of your support. And until next time, my friends don't forget. Stay techie.

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